No FFL

[deadin]

True as far as you go but a shipped gun intended for another recipient has not been transferred until it transfers ownership with the filling out of a 4473 and the receipt by the purchaser as the FFL is not a party to the sale. If that doesn't happen then no transfer has taken place and the firearm may be returned to the owner directly. A consignment is not analogous as in that case the owner IS transferring the firearm to the dealer for him to sell and it is specifically covered in ATF regulations.

So you are contending that the receiving FFL doesn't log it into his book until the actual change of ownership occurs?
I'm pretty sure the ATF would find this very interesting if they were performing an audit while the licensee had a bunch of guns in-house that weren't in his book. (Either A&D or Repair)
When the receiving FFL enters the gun into his book a "transfer" has occurred. The FFL does not need to fill out a 4473 for every gun they receive. Their book and the power of their license covers that. When they transfer the gun to the new owner, be it another FFL or a private person(requiring a 4473), they need to log it out of their book. If he doesn't have the gun in his book, how is he supposed to log it out?

 

[Road Rat]

The FFL fiasco has created an expensive mess in California. Each and every firearm transfer MUST be through FFL's.

If you want to give a gun to your son for Christmas - don't forget to go to your local FFL to keep everything legal. That is "legal" according to the head witch of Sacramento, Kamala Harris.

 

[Aticus]

"May the licensee return the firearm to me, even if the shipment is across State lines?

Firearms shipped to FFLs for repair or any other lawful purpose may be returned to the person from whom received without transferring the firearm through an FFL in the recipient’s State of residence. FFLs may also return a replacement firearm of the same kind and type to the person from whom received. 18 U.S.C. § 922(a)(2)(A) "

Well, well, well, I learned something. Looked this up and there it is in the book. I knew about repair but was told you couldn't return it on a transfer. By yumpin yiminy that's a good one.

 

[2152hq]

True as far as you go but a shipped gun intended for another recipient has not been transferred until it transfers ownership with the filling out of a 4473 and the receipt by the purchaser as the FFL is not a party to the sale. If that doesn't happen then no transfer has taken place and the firearm may be returned to the owner directly. A consignment is not analogous as in that case the owner IS transferring the firearm to the dealer for him to sell and it is specifically covered in ATF regulations.
.

A shipped gun intended for another recipient that does not end up going to that recipient (refused, ect) HAS been transfered.
The shipped gun has been transferred from the person who shipped it,,,,to that FFL.

That quoted Q&A leaves out wording in the law like 'not withstanding any other provision of this part'
and 'see Sec47x.xxx(?) for requirements of a Form 4473 prior to return.'

A few important things left out there.


The law doesn't differentiate between the FFL being an intermediary in the sale,,(transfer agent),, or wether the FFL buys the firearm outright from the person.

In both cases the FFLs log book shows the firearm as 'Acquired From' the same person.
In both cases, if the FFL wants to return the firearm to the original owner without it being sold/transfered to a third party,,the FFL will have to demand a 4473/nics chk of the original owner.
Or the firearm will have to be sent to an FFL in the State the original owner resides for transfer to him there.

In both/(all) cases,,the FFLs log book states the firearm was 'Acquired From'--Named & Address or FFL.
The other entry when it is gone from inventory is 'Sold To'--Name & Address or FFL

On the 'Sold' side of the ledger there has to be on file either a 4473 or a valid (at the time of transfer) FFL copy for that transaction.
That is one of the things a BATF Compliance Check will ask for you to produce for every sold transaction in the book.

Wether that's the same name as the 'Acquired From' name or a different name makes no difference to the BATF.
There just better be a 4473/nics or an FFL in the file to match up with it when they come around to see you.

The FFL just can't give the gun back to the orig person because the other buyer didn't want it.

 

[eyegots2no]

People that have never had or run a business often want to think that someone is being a **** or is profit hungry only.

Well---they have not been in business and do not understand what all that may entail and the difficulties in staying in business---especially nowadays and in gun business.

Yes---if it wasn't for the whole anti gun and ATF crud---this may would not be an issue----but it exists, and an FFL has to protect his livelihood.