Not a good time to command Russian troops

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The Ukrainians have been dealing with winter as long as the Russians have. Lots of trees, wood heat. Rather be cold than shot up, blown up, or surrender. They will be there in the spring.

Shifting over to wood heat for spoiled city dwellers is a huge problem.......they like their running water and electricity, and......oh, yeah........they like to eat, too.

And they'll still be getting blown up. The artillery, rockets and missiles will not stop.

Our Media are pushing a false narrative to encourage more support for the Ukrainians.

Why?

They are controlled by rich people and many of those rich people profit from war and the sale of products for war.

And who bears the cost of the many billions of dollars to Ukraine to provide the profits for those rich people?
 
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Shifting over to wood heat for spoiled city dwellers is a huge problem.......they like their running water and electricity, and......oh, yeah........they like to eat, too.

And they'll still be getting blown up. The artillery, rockets and missiles will not stop.

Our Media are pushing a false narrative to encourage more support for the Ukrainians.

Why?

They are controlled by rich people and many of those rich people profit from war and the sale of products for war.

And who bears the cost of the many billions of dollars to Ukraine to provide the profits for those rich people?

RT Americanski sees it that way! :) :)

So; why are Russians shooting their own troops?

WRITTEN BY MARK CHANNER LLB POLITICAL JOURNALIST 12TH SEP 22 4:54 PM
Anarchy has hit the ranks with the Russian Army as scared troops who “fleeing” Ukraine’s counteroffensive in Kharkiv where shot dead for being “deserters.”

Ukrainian Forces are delivering a powerful counterattack against Russian troops where by they have been “surrounded” on the Kharkiv front line in the northeast and panicked soldiers have been deserting their units to seek refuge.

A Ukrainian drone had captured the moment when a Russian military vehicle drove up to Russian troops who were fleeing the front and many are young teenagers.

Brigadier General Volodymyr Shvedyuk, a commander of Ukrainian units described the incident which took place in Kharikiv in detail.

He said, “Once our drone accompanied artillery fire. At that time, we gave the occupiers a good fight.

“So several Russian soldiers ran to their rear. We have seen this well online.

“A Russian Tiger drove up to them, from which their own soldiers got out.

“After a short conversation, the latter shot the deserters.”

He added, “They didn’t even think to take the corpses.

“All this was recorded on video, and everyone who saw it was simply amazed.”
Scared Russian troops ‘fleeing’ Kharkiv ‘shot dead’ by their own soldiers for being ‘deserters’ leaving behind their 'corpses' - London Business News | Londonlovesbusiness.com
 
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RT Americanski sees it that way! :) :)

So; why are Russians shooting their own troops?

WRITTEN BY MARK CHANNER LLB POLITICAL JOURNALIST 12TH SEP 22 4:54 PM
Anarchy has hit the ranks with the Russian Army as scared troops who “fleeing” Ukraine’s counteroffensive in Kharkiv where shot dead for being “deserters.”

Ukrainian Forces are delivering a powerful counterattack against Russian troops where by they have been “surrounded” on the Kharkiv front line in the northeast and panicked soldiers have been deserting their units to seek refuge.

A Ukrainian drone had captured the moment when a Russian military vehicle drove up to Russian troops who were fleeing the front and many are young teenagers.

Brigadier General Volodymyr Shvedyuk, a commander of Ukrainian units described the incident which took place in Kharikiv in detail.

He said, “Once our drone accompanied artillery fire. At that time, we gave the occupiers a good fight.

“So several Russian soldiers ran to their rear. We have seen this well online.

“A Russian Tiger drove up to them, from which their own soldiers got out.

“After a short conversation, the latter shot the deserters.”

He added, “They didn’t even think to take the corpses.

“All this was recorded on video, and everyone who saw it was simply amazed.”
Scared Russian troops ‘fleeing’ Kharkiv ‘shot dead’ by their own soldiers for being ‘deserters’ leaving behind their 'corpses' - London Business News | Londonlovesbusiness.com

All this happens in every war........especially one like this.

And.......

You didn't answer my question.
 
All this happens in every war........especially one like this.

And.......

You didn't answer my question.

Only Russians (of the modern nuclear powers) kill their own routinely to keep them in place.

You assume that all information comes from the media. For the past several years I've worked on international police development projects in a wide variety of post-conflict places; many friends have worked (and still work) in Ukraine, Georgia, and Azerbaijan. Our discussions on professional topics provide me first-hand accounts of in-country occurrences. I spoke with one 12 hours ago.
 
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AA12ioIC.img
 
Only Russians (of the modern nuclear powers) kill their own routinely to keep them in place.

You assume that all information comes from the media. For the past several years I've worked on international police development projects in a wide variety of post-conflict places; many friends have worked (and still work) in Ukraine, Georgia, and Azerbaijan. Our discussions on professional topics provide me first-hand accounts of in-country occurrences. I spoke with one 12 hours ago.

Sounds like biased sources.

Probably even more biased than our Media........and you still didn't answer my question.

And who bears the cost of the many billions of dollars to Ukraine to provide the profits for those rich people?
 
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Der Veminator,

What is the profit margin that the
rich people are raking in? You
must know that to decide if a war
is cost effective and if the benefits
of possible freedom, such as
for Ukraine, are worth it.

Once it is established what is a
fair price for freedom, then we'll
all have a better idea if aid to
Ukraine is worth it or not.

You might debate the concept of
freedom but let's just say it can
mean one thing to one person and
something totally different to
another.

It might help also if you define what
freedom means to you and what
it is worth to you in dollars and cents.
 
Der Veminator,

What is the profit margin that the
rich people are raking in? You
must know that to decide if a war
is cost effective and if the benefits
of possible freedom, such as
for Ukraine, are worth it.

Once it is established what is a
fair price for freedom, then we'll
all have a better idea if aid to
Ukraine is worth it or not.

You might debate the concept of
freedom but let's just say it can
mean one thing to one person and
something totally different to
another.

It might help also if you define what
freedom means to you and what
it is worth to you in dollars and cents.

You still haven't answered my question.
 
My, my, my, how the big Russian bear whimpers!

Russian men drafted to war by President Vladimir Putin's recent mobilization announcement are using a Ukrainian hotline to ask how they can give themselves up, according to Ukraine's Ministry of Defense.

Andrii Yusov, a spokesperson for the department, said during a televised briefing on Monday that there had been a strong response to the "I Want to Live" hotline, according to the Ukrainian newspaper Ukrainska Pravda.
Russians are calling up the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense asking how to surrender, Ukraine says
 
Taxpayers throughout the Western alliance.

Now answer my sentiments, especially
what dollars and cents value do you
place on freedom for yourself? Would
the payout be cost effective? And why?

My freedom is priceless.

It's also my responsibility.

Just as Ukrainian freedom is their responsibility.

Should American taxpayers pay many billions of dollars to the rich purveyors of war machines so they can send these machines to Ukraine?

Ukraine can't win against a far superior Russia anyway.

So.........us taxpayers lose.

The rich weapons manufacturers win.

Russia wins.

Ukraine loses.

If that's protecting freedom to you........good for you.

I can't see it, myself.

Haven't we already been down far too many roads like this in the past?

Iraq. Somalia. Afghanistan. Syria. Iran. Lebanon. Vietnam.

As the rich weapons manufacturers smile.
 
If you want some truth and common sense, read this:

Who is Winning the War in Ukraine? - The American Conservative

These clips summarize the BS being regurgitated by our Media:

Start with that nuclear plant at Zaporizhzhya. We were told the Russians hold the plant. We were also warned by the Ukrainians of a mass nuclear incident if the shelling of the plant did not cease. U.N. inspectors are on the ground tsk-tsking over the consequences should more bombs hit the plant and the cooling systems fail.

But if the Russians hold the plant and the Ukrainians want it back, exactly which side is doing the dangerous shelling? Even as Ukraine attacks the plant, Western media buy into the narrative that Russia is responsible. It makes no sense...

We are told the Ukrainians, when not shelling the nuclear plant, are engaged in a titanic offensive to recapture areas to the east previously taken by the Russians.

None of the details matter—the tiny towns being fought over are “strategic points” when Ukraine captures them or “unimportant hamlets” when still held by Russia.

The sources of this information similarly insult our intelligence, like the made-for-the-internet organization Kyiv Independent (“Bodies Exhumed from Mass Grave Show Signs of Violence”), The New Voice of Ukraine (“World must be ready for Russia’s disintegration”), Institute for the Study of War (“Russia's 'strategic defeat' could threaten his regime”), and Ukrayinska Pravda (“Ukrainian forces destroy Russian Mi-8 helicopter and kill over 120 Russian soldiers”).

These sources have all the credibility of a late night infomercial...

It all lacks context. Here’s eight seconds of a tank blowing up. Where was it shot? When? Was the explosion caused by a mine, a missile, or something internal to the tank? Is the tank Russian or Ukrainian?

In most cases the media outlet had no idea of the answers to those questions, never mind who shot the video and for what end.

Even if the media stumbled onto the basic who-what-where, the exploding-tank video is devoid of context. Was that the lead tank hit, stopping the Russian advance toward a village? Or was it a Russian tank that lingered in an open field and got picked off by a lucky shot, without much strategic consequence? One assumes clever hands can change a mini-Ukrainian flag to a spray-painted Z as necessary, because most of the hardware used by both sides is the same.

Some of the video might as well be doctored Ohio State-Michigan footage.

Ask Baghdad Bob how it works. As one commenter put it, he'd likely mimic Western press reports about Ukraine’s “lightning offensive.”

Nearly all of the mainstream media use the word “humiliating” to describe Russia’s losses. Russian defenses “collapsed” and they “fled in panic.”

This was widely attributed to the supposed “exhaustion” and “low morale” of Russian troops. As a result, the battle lines have been “redrawn,” and the war’s contours “reshaped.” Putin is said to be “livid and isolated.” The “Ukrainian victory shattered Russia’s reputation as a military superpower.”

At one point Ukraine boasted that it destroyed 509 Russian tanks using shoulder-fired missiles.

Maybe; one of the techniques of modern propaganda is to throw out some outrageous number, challenge people to disprove it, and then proclaim, 'you can’t disprove it, so I’m right.' So, no proof.

But history suggests 509 man-on-tank kills is a ridiculous figure. During Gulf War 1.0, one of the largest tank battles of modern times at 73 Easting saw Coalition forces destroy only 160 Iraqi tanks, and that was using the M-1 tank with its sophisticated aiming tech and night vision. Even at the famed Battle of the Bulge, only 700 tanks from both sides were destroyed.
 
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