And, of course, the problem manifests itself in much more serious ways than motion pictures, not that they aren't a serious enough problem.
Notice the last three westerns have flopped?
- Thread starter Malpasowildlifer
- Start date
Not the ones I've seen....they just don't focus on sex, senseless violence, or glorifying criminal activity....
Yes, they are. But they preach to what most of us consider high ideals, for everybody, based on God's instruction/revelation/whatever in accordance with your exact religion. Some Hollywood stuff is based on destruction of religious ideals, and some Hollywood stuff is based on relatively new "religions" which, although they sometimes espouse good things, are obviously based on a false religion of self-congratulation. [I do notice that self-congratulation is occasionally a problem with observers of traditional religions, as well, but, IMO, less frequently these days, and they don't have to make up a whole new religion to do it.] IMO, the bottom line is that most folks see through the falsehood of many Hollywood lines, whereas a "moral movie" usually doesn't have any falsehood to see through. Of course, it could also conceivably be boring, nothing new, or simplistic.
Leastways, that's how I see it.
It IS nice to read the reviews here and get some idea of what might be worth watching.
153
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These days Hollywood's agenda is to break down what's left of morals and decency and replace it with gutter based "fun". The idea is that eliminating any form of "morality" will help a movie succeed because no one will be offended ... all good fun!
I didn't think the latest "True Grit" was in any way better than the original, the Texas Ranger was a child molester and "Rooster" was "The Big Lebowski" in a hat.
I didn't think the latest "True Grit" was in any way better than the original, the Texas Ranger was a child molester and "Rooster" was "The Big Lebowski" in a hat.
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Those three flicks weren't real westerns IMO. They deserved to flop. Not like True Grit, which did do well. Just my $.02.
Beruisis
Beruisis
What, y'all didn't like Brokeback Mountain? LOLOLOLOL
steveno
Member
the last movie I seen was "Open Range" and that has been quite a few years ago. there hasn't been any movie since that I thought might even be interesting
All along I thought the guy was saying, "I can't quit chew!"
jaykellogg
Absent Comrade
OK, to be a western it has to fit the western mold. It cannot be some movie just set in the old west. To be a Western it should have a central character who can do it all. And at the end this central character has to be the winner. To my mind Unforgiven, True Grit, and Lonesome Dove all fit that category. There are plenty of western characters who could be portrayed. Instead Hollywood writes a script and sets in the old west. Often they have 19 century characters with 20th century ideals. It stands out like a sore thumb when I watch older westerns today. Jesse James would not hesitate to shoot a (Northern) lawman, but he never would have reached up under a woman's dress to get jewelry she had hidden there. If he had he would have been hounded to death and no one would have sheltered him. Yet you see westerns where the "bad guys" leer at women and make suggestive threats.
On the Lone Ranger thread I said I would probably go. I haven't seen the movie and probably will not go. I hear the first hour and last half hour are good and the middle is awful and violent.
BTW, I just bought a Blu Ray DVD of Bonnie and Clyde. Like a lot of historical characters they are a mix of good and bad. They richly deserved the end they got, but to just write them off as a couple of homicidal youngsters is a mistake. Just go on Amazon's website and read the reviews. Same with Billy the Kid. He was a product of his time and place. He saw his mentor and friend murdered by a corrupt lawman. Later, he was promised a pardon and the Governor reneged. There weren't many "good guys" in that part of New Mexico. And yes he was right handed.
I have a DVD of "The Professionals" Other than having Jack Palance play a Mexican revolutionary, I thought the casting and acting was great. The story is professional hardcases are hired to bring a wealthy rancher's wife back who was supposedly kidnapped by a Mexican revolutionary (Palance). As it turned out, she ran off with him and the "professionals" decide to leave her where she wants to be. Now, I don't believe for a minute that they would have actually acted that way, but that is the way Hollywierd scripted it.
On the Lone Ranger thread I said I would probably go. I haven't seen the movie and probably will not go. I hear the first hour and last half hour are good and the middle is awful and violent.
BTW, I just bought a Blu Ray DVD of Bonnie and Clyde. Like a lot of historical characters they are a mix of good and bad. They richly deserved the end they got, but to just write them off as a couple of homicidal youngsters is a mistake. Just go on Amazon's website and read the reviews. Same with Billy the Kid. He was a product of his time and place. He saw his mentor and friend murdered by a corrupt lawman. Later, he was promised a pardon and the Governor reneged. There weren't many "good guys" in that part of New Mexico. And yes he was right handed.
I have a DVD of "The Professionals" Other than having Jack Palance play a Mexican revolutionary, I thought the casting and acting was great. The story is professional hardcases are hired to bring a wealthy rancher's wife back who was supposedly kidnapped by a Mexican revolutionary (Palance). As it turned out, she ran off with him and the "professionals" decide to leave her where she wants to be. Now, I don't believe for a minute that they would have actually acted that way, but that is the way Hollywierd scripted it.
I can't even provide the link as I know it would be a hanging offense.
Google "Willie Nelson Brokeback Mountain"
...And I cannot lie...
imjin138
US Veteran
I saw the previews of the Lone Ranger and gave up, after seeing Depp's costume same idea Pirates of the Carribean, didn't watch those either. One of the previews has a woman with a double barrel gun of some sort in her shoe or leg I hope she has good hips for recoil.
If they would make a western instead of a science fiction movie we would be ok but they don't.
If they would make a western instead of a science fiction movie we would be ok but they don't.
cmort666
Member
Any new western has to measure up to "Tombstone", and THAT'S a hard standard to meet, never mind exceed.
cmort666
Member
One of my bottom ten westerns made for more money than my car's worth.
The script was a sheer mess. The only thing it's got going for it is five seconds of John Cleese.
the ringo kid
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It's too bad that Jim Carrey has swore off movies with gun violence.He would make a totally awesome western star. His name would be synonymous with the great western genre movies just like; Wayne, Eastwood, Rogers, Stewart, Duvall and Hackman. I get goose bumps just thinking about it!
Any western movie with Carrey's name associated with it would be a guaranteed classic and a box office block buster.
If you've seen his parity on gun control you already know he does Charlton Heston better than Charlton Heston does Charlton Heston!He is a true master at his craft.
As a Canadian, he fully grasps the American spirit of the wild west and his dramatic acting stills are beyond reproach. Just look at his body of work. It is both timeless and priceless.
Now please excuse me while I go throw up.
I was about to lay down the law on ya-but glad I will not have to
Will Carry
Member
The new True Grit sucked. There are so many good western movies that have not been made. Hollywood needs to get it's head out of it's arse and make them.
the ringo kid
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Tombstone and Silverado were probably the last two new Westerns I saw. Ill stick with the classics though and the "B" Westerns since there are well over 5,000 of them to choose from and many available on DvD and more almost by the day.
Speaking of Westerns (TV) this time--just completed season 1 of: Bat Masterson, and now on season 1 of: Cheyenne.
Speaking of Westerns (TV) this time--just completed season 1 of: Bat Masterson, and now on season 1 of: Cheyenne.
It's too bad that Jim Carrey has swore off movies with gun violence.
Any western movie with Carrey's name associated with it would be a guaranteed classic and a box office block buster.
If you've seen his parity on gun control you already know he does Charlton Heston better than Charlton Heston does Charlton Heston!
As a Canadian, he fully grasps the American spirit of the wild west and his dramatic acting stills are beyond reproach. Just look at his body of work. It is both timeless and priceless.
Now please excuse me while I go throw up.
I wasn't sure where you were going with that...but its great that everything came out in the end!
What I like
I whole lot of CGI and cataclysmic explosions, and lots of shooting with bullets bouncing off of everything making sparks. Oh, don't forget flying cars. A car chase isn't a car chase without flying cars. People riding down in a falling building that as soon as it stops falling, starts falling again many times over. Lots of fighting with lots of acrobatics in slow motion. If there is enough of this you don't have to listen to a boring old script.
I whole lot of CGI and cataclysmic explosions, and lots of shooting with bullets bouncing off of everything making sparks. Oh, don't forget flying cars. A car chase isn't a car chase without flying cars. People riding down in a falling building that as soon as it stops falling, starts falling again many times over. Lots of fighting with lots of acrobatics in slow motion. If there is enough of this you don't have to listen to a boring old script.
I enjoyed Pirates of the Caribbean for what it was. No historical accuracy, just like the Disney ride it was based on, but fun none the less.
The Lone Ranger has a much longer history, so it's easy to make comparisons.
The Lone Ranger has a much longer history, so it's easy to make comparisons.
ChuckS1
US Veteran
Would be great, but how would you get a saddle on her?
Delos
Member
Just a little basic storyline please
As I recall the basic plot on Lone Ranger movies was that the lone Ranger remained out of town so to keep his not-dead status private.
Tonto would go into town and hang around the hardware store buying basic supplies and listening to people talk about latest crime problems.
Johnny Depp dressed up as some kind of punk rock, zombie, satanist, weirdo american indian did not seem believable to me. I cannot imagine someone dressed like him blending in anywhere.
So why not make it more real. Most old frontier towns were mining or fur trade. All the mid west fur trade forts/towns had plenty of peaceful Indians working there loading furs on wagons or riverboats or something. Obviously any real Tonto would go into the town to talk to the Indians. And no indian wears war paint unless rushing off to battle. Any Indian in town with a painted face would soon be history.
Maybe Hollywood could make a movie about General Custer moonlighting as a gunslinger. Modern kids would gobble that up as real history.
As I recall the basic plot on Lone Ranger movies was that the lone Ranger remained out of town so to keep his not-dead status private.
Tonto would go into town and hang around the hardware store buying basic supplies and listening to people talk about latest crime problems.
Johnny Depp dressed up as some kind of punk rock, zombie, satanist, weirdo american indian did not seem believable to me. I cannot imagine someone dressed like him blending in anywhere.
So why not make it more real. Most old frontier towns were mining or fur trade. All the mid west fur trade forts/towns had plenty of peaceful Indians working there loading furs on wagons or riverboats or something. Obviously any real Tonto would go into the town to talk to the Indians. And no indian wears war paint unless rushing off to battle. Any Indian in town with a painted face would soon be history.
Maybe Hollywood could make a movie about General Custer moonlighting as a gunslinger. Modern kids would gobble that up as real history.
semperfi71
US Veteran
"Old West" history occurred pretty much in tandem with "Old West" fantasy.
In 1840 or so Kit Carson was on the trail of Indians (Apache I think) who ambushed a small wagon group. He was attempting to recover one or more female captives.
In the carnage of the wagons destroyed "site" he found one or more paperback books about "Kit Carson the Western Hero" (pulp novels). He had no idea his life was being written about. Same occurred for Hickock, Buffalo Bill, and others. Fiction and fact grew along with the actual history of the "Old West".
So by the time Hollywood got involved (The Great Train Robbery in 1909?) their "renditions" of the "Old West" were already tainted, if you will, with fact, fiction, and the producer/director's "version" of how the west was.
By today the renditions are worse. There were too many "turned-up-at-the-corner-hats" in "Tombstone" (and bling-bling gun rigs). But somebody in charge liked the look. There have been WAY too many "Buscadero Rigs" in a LOT of westerns, even modern ones where the folks in charge should have known better. Too many cowboys riding paint horses...way back then supposedly paints were considered inferior mounts although there were a few who liked them. Too many movies with everyone wearing brown and black only. And too many movies with extra-wide-brim-hats. Etc., Etc.
By the time of the 1940's there were still a few people around who had lived the "Old West" and knew at least something about it. Now there are none and perhaps Tom Selleck was the last one who really knew much about the old west because he has studied it.
There is still a treasure trove of western history to be made into movies but Hollywood is interested in making money, not movies. So a re-make (they probably think) appeals to a new audience because they haven't seen the last four or five "Wyatt Earp" flicks because they are too young. Plus they think, "If we put A "Johnny Depp" in this one it will sell."
Here's some western history that could be made into a good movie if someone had the brains. 1. Commodore Perry Owens. 2. Quanah Parker 3. A bunch of the Oklahoma lawmen of the late 1880's and early 1890's. 4. Elfego Baca. 5. Charles Russell (not much gunfighting but a lot of real cowboying). Frank Hamer (not necessarily a western but a follow-up to the old west into the 1930's with a LOT of gunfighting). The "massacre" in the Wichita saloon by a supposedly consumptive kid (if I have the right town a story built around that singular incident would be good).
But Hollywood is about making money and not making movies. There was a dearth of westerns from the mid 1970's to the late 1980's because those that were made were garbage and did not sell well. So the money-makers in Hollywood pronounced the "Western is dead." Then "Tombstone" came along, as well as (GAG-ME-WITH-A-BRANDING-IRON!)..."Siverado" (but it sold well because the audience was into the characters and not the plot or poor everything else). Then more folks jumped on the bandwagon and more westerns occurred with a few good ones. Now the recent "Lone Ranger" might again create a "death knell" for westerns...simply because it may not make money.
In 1840 or so Kit Carson was on the trail of Indians (Apache I think) who ambushed a small wagon group. He was attempting to recover one or more female captives.
In the carnage of the wagons destroyed "site" he found one or more paperback books about "Kit Carson the Western Hero" (pulp novels). He had no idea his life was being written about. Same occurred for Hickock, Buffalo Bill, and others. Fiction and fact grew along with the actual history of the "Old West".
So by the time Hollywood got involved (The Great Train Robbery in 1909?) their "renditions" of the "Old West" were already tainted, if you will, with fact, fiction, and the producer/director's "version" of how the west was.
By today the renditions are worse. There were too many "turned-up-at-the-corner-hats" in "Tombstone" (and bling-bling gun rigs). But somebody in charge liked the look. There have been WAY too many "Buscadero Rigs" in a LOT of westerns, even modern ones where the folks in charge should have known better. Too many cowboys riding paint horses...way back then supposedly paints were considered inferior mounts although there were a few who liked them. Too many movies with everyone wearing brown and black only. And too many movies with extra-wide-brim-hats. Etc., Etc.
By the time of the 1940's there were still a few people around who had lived the "Old West" and knew at least something about it. Now there are none and perhaps Tom Selleck was the last one who really knew much about the old west because he has studied it.
There is still a treasure trove of western history to be made into movies but Hollywood is interested in making money, not movies. So a re-make (they probably think) appeals to a new audience because they haven't seen the last four or five "Wyatt Earp" flicks because they are too young. Plus they think, "If we put A "Johnny Depp" in this one it will sell."
Here's some western history that could be made into a good movie if someone had the brains. 1. Commodore Perry Owens. 2. Quanah Parker 3. A bunch of the Oklahoma lawmen of the late 1880's and early 1890's. 4. Elfego Baca. 5. Charles Russell (not much gunfighting but a lot of real cowboying). Frank Hamer (not necessarily a western but a follow-up to the old west into the 1930's with a LOT of gunfighting). The "massacre" in the Wichita saloon by a supposedly consumptive kid (if I have the right town a story built around that singular incident would be good).
But Hollywood is about making money and not making movies. There was a dearth of westerns from the mid 1970's to the late 1980's because those that were made were garbage and did not sell well. So the money-makers in Hollywood pronounced the "Western is dead." Then "Tombstone" came along, as well as (GAG-ME-WITH-A-BRANDING-IRON!)..."Siverado" (but it sold well because the audience was into the characters and not the plot or poor everything else). Then more folks jumped on the bandwagon and more westerns occurred with a few good ones. Now the recent "Lone Ranger" might again create a "death knell" for westerns...simply because it may not make money.
With all due respect to Clint Eastwood (I really dug his movies in his heyday), I don't think there will be much of a demand now for a western where the hero uses a walker or a wheelchair to get around.
John
KeithC
Member
The last good ones IMO...Unforgiven naturally, Open Range, 3:10 to Yuma, and Broken Trail.
Wouldn't waste my time or money on any kind of "western" with Depp in it, or aliens...
I will admit to being a fan of the AMC mini series Hell on Wheels, and like watching the Sat morning western lineup and just recently my cable company added Encore westerns to its lineup and I've watched a lot of that lately. The play a lot of the classics and a lot of the more obscure and forgotten old westerns that were pretty good.
Wouldn't waste my time or money on any kind of "western" with Depp in it, or aliens...
I will admit to being a fan of the AMC mini series Hell on Wheels, and like watching the Sat morning western lineup and just recently my cable company added Encore westerns to its lineup and I've watched a lot of that lately. The play a lot of the classics and a lot of the more obscure and forgotten old westerns that were pretty good.
ChuckS1
US Veteran
"When the legend becomes fact, print the legend". Same applies to Hollywood.
Edit: one of my favortie westerns is Silverado, because it's darn near got every Western cliche and stereotype in it. I think it was more of a parody of the Western genre than a serious movie. When John Cleese comes into the restaurant/saloon with his "What's all this, then?" line, straight out Monty Python, i finally got the joke of the whole movie.
Edit: one of my favortie westerns is Silverado, because it's darn near got every Western cliche and stereotype in it. I think it was more of a parody of the Western genre than a serious movie. When John Cleese comes into the restaurant/saloon with his "What's all this, then?" line, straight out Monty Python, i finally got the joke of the whole movie.
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