OAL or a Keith 357 bullet/cartridge

[bronco45]

I've had great good luck with Keith 357 cast slugs at 173 grains three decades ago.

Found a source and want to load some up for a Ruger GP100. Is the Ruger GP 100 cylinder long enough to use the Keith bullet loaded in a 357 case.

I don't think the Keith slug loaded in a 357 case will work in a N Frame Smith; am I right.

What will work with the Keith bullet crimped at the driving band in a 357 Case?

The reason I ask about the GP is I have the opportunity to purchase one but I don't have it in my possession.

 

[banjopkr]

Keith Slugs

The Keith Lyman 358429 that I cast works in all my non recessed Smith .357 mags and I load in .357 cases,It will work in some of my N frames,but all of my K&L frame guns,even the N frames it works in are very close to too long,with that said the Ruger should be as long as the K&L frame Smiths but dont have one to measure.
Hope this helps.

 

[campfire]

I am only new to reloading but I understand that the maximum length for 357magnum is 1.590” or 40.39mm according to the SAAMI specifications.
I have just had a look through the Hodgdon Powders website and noticed that the load data for bullets in the 158/170/180 grain range have lengths ranging from 1.590”/40.39mm to 1.620” / 41.148mm (very little difference overall).
If your rounds were within these measurements wouldn’t you be able to shoot them in any 357 magnum revolver.
I am hoping to learn something here and just curious why is it necessary to make your rounds any longer than the SAAMI specs. Does it have something to do with the crimping position?
Campfire

 

[cp1969]

It works in my M586 but just barely. Won't in a Python, I can vouch for that. You can always crimp over the front shoulder and reduce powder accordingly.

 

[ronnie gore]

cylinder length

the cylinder on a s&w 66 is 30 thousands longer than the gp-100, it would be close, i know they won't work in a colt python. if i get a chance tomorrow i will load one of the 173 grain bullets to see if it will work.
Elmer keith used to advocate crimping over the front driving band in shorter cylinder guns.
UPDATE, I LOADED ONE OF THE 173 GRAIN KEITH BULLETS IN A 357 CASE AND IT IS PERFECTLY FLUSH WITH THE FACE OF THE CYLINDER, ANY BULLET PULL WOULD HANG UP THE CYLINDER IN A GP-100, JUST CRIMP OVER THE FRONT DRIVING BAND, DOES NOT LOOK AS GOOD BUT WORKS JUST AS WELL.

 

[bronco45]

Thanks Ronnie, I don't want to buy a 1000 of these to find out I can't load them in a heavy framed weapon. I have K frames but shoot 158gr Swcs, at 1000 fps. I want a 357 that I can rev up a little, and the GP fits that bill along with ease in changing front sights and grips.

 

[BruceM]

If a loaded round, regardless of which bullet is used, will fit in the cylinder without protruding past the face of the cylinder, you are good to go regardless of the measured COAL. The measured or listed dimension is of no consequence. If it is close, care must be taken that the bullet does not move during recoil, effectively lengthening the round and tying up the gun. It is not uncommon for loaded rounds using true Keith style SWC's to exceed the maximum SAAMI COAL but the controlling and only really relevant factor is if they do or do not fit in the cylinder. If you search this forum and the other Smith & Wesson board's reloading Forum, you will find another (cross posted) thread concerning this issue which started a week or so ago. The Lyman reloading manual has recommended seating bullet 358429 in .357 magnum cases so that the case can be crimped over the top driving band. I started loading in the late 1970's and this info was contained even in Lyman manuals which were old then.

Without the gun in hand??

Bruce

 

[ronnie gore]

357 LOAD

I USE A 158 GRAIN LEAD BULLET IN ALL MY 357 AT 1200 FPS USING AA NO 7, NOT THE MAXIMUM LOAD BUT PLENTY POWERFUL ENOUGH FOR URBAN RENEWAL.

 

[Fkimble]

Bronco45, can you tell me the source of the Keith 173's? I have been looking for them for awhile.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

Beartooth Bullets sells them, Mt Baldy Bullets, and Leadheads Bullets all sell true Kieth bullets-


https://secure25.securewebsession.com/proshootpro.com/order.htm

Mt. Baldy Bullets

Beartooth Bullets Secure Online Shopping

 

[okie john]

I am hoping to learn something here and just curious why is it necessary to make your rounds any longer than the SAAMI specs. Does it have something to do with the crimping position?
Campfire

The nose on a true 173-grain Kieth bullet is long. The resulting rounds will be over SAAMI spec. Same with some LBT designs.


Okie John

 

[lebomm]

I've used the Lyman 358429 in .357 brass , crimped in the crimp groove, over 13.5/2400 in my Model 13 with good result. Kicks like hell, but fires all 6 to a predictable POI and has never tied up the cylinder. I shouldn't think it'll give any problems in an N frame.

Larry

 

[bronco45]

The Keiths that are being offered are from a friend who is a bullet caster and it's part of a trade for some related equipment.

I think I will get the bullets. I know Beartooth makes this bullet, I shoot their WFN 250GC in my 44 Mag carbine and it is very accurate.

I appreciate everyones' input and work. Ronnie Gore thanks again for "loading one up"; I appreciate it.

Tom

 

[Joed49]

I've been loading the 358429 for almost 10 years. Save yourself the trouble and crimp over the front driving band when using .357 cases.

I once said Elmer Keith had rocks in his head for designing that bullet. It was then pointed out to me that it was designed for a .38 Spl case before the .357 was on the scene. And that makes sense.

I've found it works in most K and L frames but causes problems in the N frames as the cylinders are shorter. Can't remember but thought it worked in my Python which I sold a few years ago.

 

[bronco45]

Thanks Joed, appreciate you sharing your knowledge.

 

[cp1969]

Can't remember but thought it worked in my Python which I sold a few years ago.

Not unless you put it in a .38 case. I am not sure, but I don't think even crimping over the front band will make it short enough for a Python.

It won't work in my Marlin 1894C, either, which is a crying shame. I guess I could load it in .38 Spl cases, but as long as I own .38 revolvers, I won't do that. I don't need a faceful of cylinder shrapnel at this stage of the game.

 

[AH-1G]

ol elmer came out with the 358429 for the old 38-44 smiths/colt saa revolvers.I was lucky to find a old square groove mold and have been casting that bullet for years.
if you have to seat them deep just remember to back off the powder charges with the reduced case volume.
I just shoot them now in my redhawk and have LOTS of room to spare.

 

[LazarusLong]

Good god does that thing have some metal around the cases!!! The Redhawk was overbuilt as a .44 much less a .357. I think it is pretty much kaboom proof unless you loaded a case full of bullseye or something. You might could get 125's or 115's HP's over 2000 FPS with the right load

 

[AH-1G]

I had been looking for one of these for years and one day I found this one new in the box.I haven't really pushed it all that hard but its so heavy the recoil is nothing as it heavy.those 358429 173 gr keith are very accurate in it.
I save my milder loads for my 27-2.I paid 25.00 for that old orginal keith mold and it was the best 25.00 I even spent.
pete

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

Good god does that thing have some metal around the cases!!! The Redhawk was overbuilt as a .44 much less a .357. I think it is pretty much kaboom proof unless you loaded a case full of bullseye or something. You might could get 125's or 115's HP's over 2000 FPS with the right load

The case will let loose long before the Redhawk will. I don't think that even a case full of Bullseye would ruin it. They use a very good grade of SS in them. I know that it is about the same size as the F/A 83's cylinder, and they used to claim that a case full of any powder available to handloaders would hurt the gun, and Shooting Times ran the test. Cases had to be pounded out, but the F/A held without damage.