OC vs CC

[Bob R]

Regardless, I plan to continue OCing, makes me warm inside knowing all the OC fudds getting their panties in a wad over it, never mind pissing off all the anti-gunners.

I OC 95+% of the time. It took several years by a dedicated group of people locally to get it normalized. The police had to be educated, the law makers had to be educated and it is still an ongoing thing. But, it has become much more normalized here locally because we DO go out OC and go about our daily business as anyone does. I am lucky because all of the states I normally visit are all OC friendly so while it may be out of the ordinary everyday sight, it is not uncommon.

bob

 

[keith44spl]

I'm a 1000x more worried about this sort of thing vs Joe Criminal targeting me cause he sees a my gun.

Tampa Police backpedal on open carry incident

The way to fix this is for many more people to OC.

I have worked with a few officers that wanted to make up
their own interpretations of the statutes to suit themselves.

I have never been so badge heavy as to perceived my occupation
as a free ticket to any privilege or height in stature.

All men are created equal and ought to be willing and

able to cover the ground they stand on.


That is all.


.

 

[Smoke]

Of course. Doesn't change the fact that armed men with evil intent were not dissuaded from killing them because they were armed, just like the junkie craving Oxy isn't gonna be swayed by the pharmacist with the gun openly displayed on his hip. he's just gonna walk in, shoot the pharmacist, and get what he came for. And if there's an OC guy buying diapers for his kid in that drugstore, he's dead, too.

If the junkie is that hard up why not just sell his gun?

 

[ladder13]

According to the story you linked it speaks to one misdemeanor conviction back in 2000 for stolen CDs and car speakers when Watkins was 17. It says that Watkins pleaded guilty and accepted an 18-month probation and deferred adjudication, according to county records. Two years later, the case was wiped from his official record after he successfully completed probation. The writer goes on to say that Watkins may be eligible now but obviously does not know.

So you translate this to a convicted felon who is banned and spread disinformation until called on it?

Like they say... if you don't have any legitimate argument just make up stuff and smear those you disagree with.

You can add that question to the long list of questions that never get answered.

 

[kbm6893]

That's the way the dude I saw in Applebees recently was carrying. It pretty much stuck out into the aisle. It was so obvious it grabbed your attention.

And I sure that was his intention. Only alternative is he was so stupid he didn't realize it. I like to hope that a man carrying a weapon isn't that clueless, but unfortunately, that is sometimes the case.

 

[kbm6893]

If the junkie is that hard up why not just sell his gun?

Cause a haul of Oxy is worth about 20 times what he can get for selling the gun, and if he keeps it, he can hit the next pharmacy too.

 

[Donn]

Aw jeez, this again? Nope, not playing.

 

[Capt.Jim]

Everything said and discussed here aside, I have a few additional comments.
First, I want to touch base not to the core issue OP brought up, but the discussion itself...

I always found interesting at any forum on the Net to find some people who spend their precious time to post a response to a thread regarding an issue covered many, many times on those boards, just to say " I don't want to talk about this because it has been talked too many times!"

It's like me going to my church only to say to my priest "What? Bible again? Didn't we discuss these subjects enough times since last 27 years in this church for God's sake? " ...and walk out.

With all do respect my friends, you are in a GUN forum's Concealed Carry & Self Defense sub-forum... What other subject you preferred to see discussed here? Kardashians?

If the subject is boring for you, just skip the thread gentlemen.
Don't waste your time and energy to respond, just to say " I don't want to say anything in this subject "...

Because if you really do not have anything to say, trust me, you being silent on the issue doesn't carry any weight in this discussion!

Now regarding the main issue; I was wondering if those of you who poo-poo OC, and 100% sure OC doesn't deter any criminals possibly also doesn't believe the deterring effect of a pulsating red car-alarm light visible on a dash may cause the car thief skip to the next car which doesn't show such a light?

Or, those of you believe a homeowner will have a better chance of not being targeted if he removes the yard sign in front of his house saying "Protected by ACME Alarm Co." ?

I read the argument of even gun shops being targeted despite having armed employees.
I agree if a criminal is targeting you or your business for some specific reason there may not much you can do to deter him/her.

But if a BG is scanning to choose his next victim what possible harm could come to show him that you have the means to defend yourself and even hurt him really badly?

So, I never heard a guy trying to rob a business or trying to held up a group of people for money choose a gun range or police department instead of a Subway sandwich shop or a 7/11 or a bank with a 70 yr old unarmed security guard!

I bet, you gentlemen can guess the reason!

Also, in my opinion it is insulting to label every gun owner who chose to OC, as a poser, or threat to social peacefulness or a sick human being with a bad gun slinger attitude...

I live in CA, so I can't OC. But I've been in many situations where I thought it could've made my life so much easier if it was legal under that specific circumstance, place and conditions.

That doesn't mean if it was legal I will be OC 100% of the time or strolling in shopping district of downtown San Francisco and causing people having heart attacks around me!

Without knowing, in what kind of a place a person lives, what kind of a surrounding he/she works, immediately jumping on them and saying "OC is a bad, bad, bad choice under any circumstance and only done by sick, crazy posers indicates one thing about the defender of this argument: "arrogance".

 

[vigil617]

Sir,
Seeing how this is one of the most lively threads going,

I would like to offer my services as a custom holster maker and
true believer in Open Carry as well as Concealed Carry, equally.

You sir, are deserving of a brand spanking new fancy tooled holster, design especial for you.

One that you can OC with pride or CC with confidence.

Please contact me via PM for details to claim your free gift from a true believer.

No man should be without a handmade rig.


Su Amigo,
Dave


.

All I can say is, there is karma, and then there is karma.

This is very, very generous of you, Mr. Keith.

And OP, if you pass up this opportunity, it will be one of the worst mistakes you'll ever make.

This is one fine Forum because there are so many fine folks on it. This post made my day.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

And if OC was a deterrent, cops would never be shot. Banks, jewelry stores, and armored cars wouldn't be robbed, either.

See where I'm going with this?.

Not really. The above reflects a misunderstanding of the meaning of deterrent. It's just a ridiculous argument of never/always. The real world does not work like that.

 

[joeintexas]

It's a matter of personal choice. Personally I feel more comfortable CC but I am sure glad Texas passed the OC bill. Covers all of us from occasional printing or accidentally showing. Not saying I wouldn't OC just that I never have and feel fine and safe with what I have been doing.

 

[lestuder3]

All I can say is, there is karma, and then there is karma.

This is very, very generous of you, Mr. Keith.

And OP, if you pass up this opportunity, it will be one of the worst mistakes you'll ever make.

This is one fine Forum because there are so many fine folks on it. This post made my day.

I know a blessing when I see one and I will not pass up such a generous offer.

 

[FTG-05]

It's a matter of personal choice. Personally I feel more comfortable CC but I am sure glad Texas passed the OC bill. Covers all of us from occasional printing or accidentally showing. Not saying I wouldn't OC just that I never have and feel fine and safe with what I have been doing.

That's been the law in TX for several years already. The new TX law legalizes full OC and becomes effective Jan. 1, 2016.

 

[Mainsail]

Of the 2.5 million times citizens use their guns to defend themselves every year, the overwhelming majority merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers. Less than 8% of the time, a citizen will kill or wound his/her attacker.

I will concede that CC does deter crime; after the gun is removed from concealment and the criminal sees it. So insofar as deterrence is concerned, CC becomes OC when the victim draws.

Mathematically, 2.5 million minus 8% equals 2.3 million. So 2.3 million times a year the visible recognition of a firearm deters a criminal. So the question becomes; when do you want the deterrence to occur, before you've been attacked or during?

Even if you factor in all the cops that get shot, gun stores that get robbed, OCers who were robbed, and all the other nonsensical arguments, OC (and CC that has become OC) are still deterring millions more criminals than pure CC (which we've established looks exactly like being unarmed).

 

[Rastoff]

I was wondering if those of you who poo-poo OC, and 100% sure OC doesn't deter any criminals possibly also doesn't believe the deterring effect of a pulsating red car-alarm light visible on a dash may cause the car thief skip to the next car which doesn't show such a light?

This light and the ADT sign are different deterrents than the openly carried gun. They are passive devices that represent no physical harm should they be set off. In fact, the accidental car alarm is so common, most people don't even look up when they go off. So, criminals are only marginally slowed by those. (Leave out the fact that most aren't smart enough to know what that flashing red light is anyway.)

Yes, I agree that an openly carried gun is not only a deterrent, but a much better one than something like a car alarm. Further, I completely agree that a concealed firearm has absolutely no deterring value because the criminal doesn't know it's there.

My biggest beef with open carry is how it affects a potential crime on an individual. If the gun is visible, and the criminal determined, he can plan how to deal with you. He can target the gun itself as well. Like I said previously, the gun can even be a cause for an attack just to steal the gun.

 

[Mainsail]

If the gun is visible, and the criminal determined, he can plan how to deal with you. He can target the gun itself as well. Like I said previously, the gun can even be a cause for an attack just to steal the gun.

I think the question more appropriately asked is; would he. He can target you or the gun, but would he?

There is an arrogant misconception that dirty thieves value their lives less, and are more willing to risk them, than you or I do. Empirically, they are willing to risk possible apprehension but not their lives. When (I forget where) a police department went on strike people started arming themselves at a higher rate than normal and crime actually went down there (wherever that was). The bad people were more afraid of the armed common citizen than the police.

If you believe he would, then OC is probably not the best choice. I'm in the camp that acknowledges they could, but don't believe they would.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

My biggest beef with open carry is how it affects a potential crime on an individual. If the gun is visible, and the criminal determined, he can plan how to deal with you. He can target the gun itself as well. Like I said previously, the gun can even be a cause for an attack just to steal the gun.

There have been lots of OC demonstrations in Texas the last couple years. Hadn't heard of anyone being raped, mugged or gun stolen before during or after, you?

While anything in a nation of 300 million is possible, I think a lot of worry over open carry exists largely in the imagination. More people have been separated from their carry guns by leaving them in a public restroom than by criminals. I believe that statistic is 99.7%.

 

[okiegtrider]

This thread is a fun read. Some chuckles, "plastic Austrian popgun", gave me a little giggle for sure.

This one just busted me up altogether:

Hmm... When the City had a big hiring of applicants for the PD & FD, they put 'em all in a pit with a ladder. Those smart enough to use the ladder to climb out went to Fire Academy. Those who stayed in the pit and sulked went to Police Academy.

This gave me a big smile and was a really cool thing to do. Well done sir!

Sir,
Seeing how this is one of the most lively threads going,

I would like to offer my services as a custom holster maker and
true believer in Open Carry as well as Concealed Carry, equally.

You sir, are deserving of a brand spanking new fancy tooled holster, design especial for you.

One that you can OC with pride or CC with confidence.

Please contact me via PM for details to claim your free gift from a true believer.

No man should be without a handmade rig.

Here in Oklahoma OC has been legal for a bout three years now. I've only personally observed someone open carrying twice since it became law. Doing a bit of a double take when I noticed that someone was carrying is about the end of it for me. Clearly the two I observed were not threat to me, nothing to see here, moved on.

 

[lestuder3]

There have been a couple of posts about OCing and people not even noticing. My wife and I went out to a local restaurant for dinner last night and I OCed. Honestly, I don't think anyone even noticed. No one said anything about it to us or acted as if they were surprised, so if it was noticed, no one cared.

 

[Rastoff]

There have been lots of OC demonstrations in Texas the last couple years. Hadn't heard of anyone being raped, mugged or gun stolen before during or after, you?

Nope and I wasn't trying to suggest there was. Again, for me, it's all about being low profile, the grey man, walk softly and carry a big stick.

For me it's all about reducing the potential for crime. That doesn't prevent me from owning nice things or moving through my day as I please. I just choose to be low profile. You may choose differently.

Having said that, I do know people who have had guns stolen after leaving the gun range. So, the thought is not without precedent.