OK, here is my crazy question of the day, anyone make their own 38Spl shot shells?

[Rule3]

No, not with the little capsules you can buy from Speer or somewhere.

Could a light load of powder be used. Put in a wad of some sort, add some shot and then, wait for it, put in a cut off bullet like the driving band of a LSWC as a plug. It would look like a wad cutter.? Use just enough of a bullet to seal the end.

Would the shot, pattern out of the end of say a 2" snub or is this just a crazy Friday night idea?

 

[Ron H.]

Sir, 20+ years ago, Mike Venturino wrote about doing something similar in .45 Colt. Speer didn't make shot capsules in .45 then, so Venturino used gas checks. He seated one down to about the depth where the base of the bullet would be in a normal load, filled the bullet space with No. 12 shot, and seated and crimped a second gas check on top.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

 

[Rule3]

Sir, 20+ years ago, Mike Venturino wrote about doing something similar in .45 Colt. Speer didn't make shot capsules in .45 then, so Venturino used gas checks. He seated one down to about the depth where the base of the bullet would be in a normal load, filled the bullet space with No. 12 shot, and seated and crimped a second gas check on top.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

I am just a little behind the times then. I only thought about this after driving back from the range. We have had rain every day and the sheet flow has flooded out all the flat Pine/ Palmetto land. So the snakes Rattle. Moccasins and other assorted nasties are seeking dry areas, like under our feet! I can just go buy a box but was just wondering.

 

[Skip Sackett]

WOW!

Sir, 20+ years ago, Mike Venturino wrote about doing something similar in .45 Colt. Speer didn't make shot capsules in .45 then, so Venturino used gas checks. He seated one down to about the depth where the base of the bullet would be in a normal load, filled the bullet space with No. 12 shot, and seated and crimped a second gas check on top.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

Oh, brother, this is going to happen! Do you remember anything about the load? I mean, powder and such. I would expect it would be similar to whatever the shot weighed.

Gonna happen!

 

[firearmsunlimited]

The pattern would probably open faster than you would like. I have tested .38 specials with #9 shot in shot cups at 8 yards and the pattern surprisingly measured 22"-24" from a 3 1/2" barrel. You should also consider that non encapsulated shot can be very tough on pistol and rifle barrels. Shot cups are clearly the way to go.

 

[Ron H.]

Oh, brother, this is going to happen! Do you remember anything about the load? I mean, powder and such. I would expect it would be similar to whatever the shot weighed.

Gonna happen!

Sir, alas, I don't remember what the powder or charge weight was. FWIW, Speer recommends fairly quick powders (Bullseye, 231, Unique, etc.) for loads with its shot capsules, so I'd think that data might provide at least a starting point. And of course, Speer now sells .45 shot capsules, so maybe the gas check load is a dead letter from the git-go.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

 

[leas327]

mike re hashed a similar thing in a recent handloader issue. Loading two or three lead balls in a .45 colt case. But even in that article said that the shot cups were the fastest and easyist way to go.

 

[NKJ nut]

I have been making shot loads for over 30 years using a gas check on top and one below the shot. Yes you do need to protect the shot from coming in contact with the bore for best results. I have used various homemade wraps but I no longer bother. I just buy this stuff:Mylar Wraps

Shot capsules are convenient but they are so thick that you are prevented from getting as many shot in your load as you will using the thin mylar wraps.

 

[Big Cholla]

When I was going to college I got a job as the 'assistant' gunsmith in a custom rifle/sporting goods store. There was a great mountain trout stream in the local mountains except it was lousy with Diamondback Rattlers. Someone got my boss to agree to modify a S&W Model 10 in .38 special to a smooth bore (usually 3" length) and for us to reload .38 cal. shot shells for the snakes. At that time there were no commercial shot shell loadings in pistol calibers. After getting a verbal OK from the local and friendly BATF agent we modified the pistol. The .38 shot shells were made from .357 mag cases. The chambers of the cylinder were bored out straight to accept the .357 cases. The side of the barrel was stamped "For Shot Shells Only". I reloaded the .357 cases with a small charge of Bullseye powder, a brass gas check from Lyman, a charge of #12 shot, a thin paper wad and some sort of liquid sealer on top that hardened into a thin layer of glass like seal. At first we tried using a slight crimp. Later we found that with the liquid glass sealant the crimp wasn't necessary. The whole package worked like a charm. We did that modification to owner's pistols for 2 years until a Senior BATF agent from out of town was brought into the shop on a friendly visit. He learned of the 'shot shell only' pistol modification and went ballistic. We got as many of the pistols back as possible and swapped barrels to a new ones with obvious rifling. I under stand that the 'shot shell' pistols worked great on the rattlers with my shot shell loading out to about 8 ft..

I have tried loading with the modern plastic capsule charge loads available now, but didn't get very good results thru my S&W Model 66 with a 2.5" bbl. ............ Big Cholla

 

[NKJ nut]

When I was going to college I got a job as the 'assistant' gunsmith in a custom rifle/sporting goods store. There was a great mountain trout stream in the local mountains except it was lousy with Diamondback Rattlers. Someone got my boss to agree to modify a S&W Model 10 in .38 special to a smooth bore (usually 3" length) and for us to reload .38 cal. shot shells for the snakes. At that time there were no commercial shot shell loadings in pistol calibers. After getting a verbal OK from the local and friendly BATF agent we modified the pistol. The .38 shot shells were made from .357 mag cases. The chambers of the cylinder were bored out straight to accept the .357 cases. The side of the barrel was stamped "For Shot Shells Only". I reloaded the .357 cases with a small charge of Bullseye powder, a brass gas check from Lyman, a charge of #12 shot, a thin paper wad and some sort of liquid sealer on top that hardened into a thin layer of glass like seal. At first we tried using a slight crimp. Later we found that with the liquid glass sealant the crimp wasn't necessary. The whole package worked like a charm. We did that modification to owner's pistols for 2 years until a Senior BATF agent from out of town was brought into the shop on a friendly visit. He learned of the 'shot shell only' pistol modification and went ballistic. We got as many of the pistols back as possible and swapped barrels to a new ones with obvious rifling. I under stand that the 'shot shell' pistols worked great on the rattlers with my shot shell loading out to about 8 ft..

I have tried loading with the modern plastic capsule charge loads available now, but didn't get very good results thru my S&W Model 66 with a 2.5" bbl. ............ Big Cholla

Glad it worked out OK for those involved. Violations of the National Firearms Act have landed many people in prison. possession of an unregistered NFA weapon is as good a way as any to land in the federal pen.

 

[NE450No2]

The CCI/Speer shotshells work great for snakes in 38 special. My wife kills several every year here at our place. She killed a 42" Diamond Back Water Snake and a Copperhead just last week.

In 44 Mag we have taken several rabbits, squirrels, quail, some doves and many grouse. They are very deadly on snakes too.

I have also use the 45 AC shotshells a bunch, and they work just as good as the 44's.

 

[Jellybean]

I've been making my own shotshells for a very long time. I don't see how shooting lead shot, which is softer than lead bullets, will harm your barrel in anyway. And I've certainly never noticed any damage to any of my firearms that have shot them.

The shot will pick up the rifling of the barrel and give a conical spread, but this also happens to the speer shot capsules which act like a plastic bullet. To get the best patterns you want to use smaller shot which would normally vary depending on what you want to shoot. I use No. 9 on chipmunks but on snakes you could probably go to No. 12 or even Dust shot and still get good kills. I'm just guessing as we don't have too many poisonous snakes around here and have never had to shoot any.

For .38s I use about 4 gr. of 231. I use a "wonder wad", used for C&B revolvers, for an over powder wad, fill the case up to just below the mouth with preferred shot, then crimp a gas check at the mouth. Some people glue cardboard wads in the case mouth for an overshot wad, which I'm going to try the next time I make .41 mag shotshells, but I haven't tried them yet.

I do have a box or two of each caliber of Speers shot capsules on hand. They don't hold as much shot, but they are convienent if you don't feel like messing with the other method.

P.S. I would think Speers plastic training bullets would be good on rats, chipmunks and snakes too. Has anyone ever tried them?

Do not use shot shells in handguns with recoil compensators.

 

[Rule3]

Thanks Jelly.

Do you have any ideas on substitutes I could use for the wad and gas check? If I have to buy that stuff I might as well just buy some ready made shot shells. Not like I need a lot of them.

What do you think of my original idea of cutting off a small piece of a lead bullet and crimping that in? For shot i was just going to cut open a 12 gauge field load.

 

[dg101win]

Sir, 20+ years ago, Mike Venturino wrote about doing something similar in .45 Colt. Speer didn't make shot capsules in .45 then, so Venturino used gas checks. He seated one down to about the depth where the base of the bullet would be in a normal load, filled the bullet space with No. 12 shot, and seated and crimped a second gas check on top.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

About 12 years ago I found what Mike wrote about and I made some up in 45Colt. 9 grains of Unique,Win primer and #9 shot. I forget the weight of the shot.
I seated one gas check upside down on top of the powder so the sides of it would act like the skirt of a HBWC to seal the powder gas. Then filled the case to the top with just enough room to seat another gas check the same way and crimped it.
My records show an average velocity of 1033fps, a high of 1309 and a low of 877.

I honestly forget what kind of pattern I got from it. Maybe tomorrow I will remember to take a few of them to the range with me and see.

 

[Bob Smalser]

To make a long story short, I'm a forest and habitat biologist who occasionally has to kill Bullfrogs around Coho salmon nurseries. Usually at night and through thick brush, so nets and gigs aren't an option. Sometimes in built-up areas. (Bullfrogs are destructive non-natives here.)

I use 45 Colt cases in my .410 specimen gun. A large pistol primer, 6 grains of whatever shotgun powder I'm loading 12ga trap loads with at the time, a felt overpowder wad, fill the case with steel shot, and a card stock overshot wad and parafin wax to seal. I cut my own wads from carpet underlayment and manila folders, using a sharpened .45 case and a small mallet.

A quiet no-lead-in-the-wetlands solution that kills reliably to 20-30 feet. Also very good on bird feeder rats invading Mama's back yard.

I originally tried 3 grains of powder but it weren't enough. Don't store your loads in a hot glove compartment or they'll come apart on you. Melt your parafin in a double boiler and don't pour too much atop the overshot card or you'll turn the shot column into a single, steel-and-wax bullet. I find I don't have to size or resize the cases, so all this can be done without a press.

 

[Jellybean]

OCD1, if you're just wanting to experiment, and not invest a paycheck into it, yes you could cut a slice of a bullet off for the over shot wad at the mouth.

I would not use that for the back wad, over powder wad. I have read several writers claim that they use gas checks for this purpose, but it poses a safety risk. Thin pieces of metal, be it lead or copper or etc. can turn sideways in the barrel and act as an obstruction for any later shots, causing severe pressure spikes.

Take an empty case and sharpen the mouth, a chamfer/deburring tool works great for this, and use it as a punch to cut wads out of a heavy cardboard box. Then use two or three of these over the powder.

One word of caution about your lead wads though. They are probably not going to be balanced very well and will fly erratically so make sure any bystanders are behind you and not off to the sides.

 

[Andy Griffith]

I bought one of the CH4D blank crimping dies some time back and have been using .357 Max brass for my .38 and .357 loads. It works pretty darn well, since it allows me to hold more shot. The blank forming die makes the .357 Max look like a Winchester "crimped shot" .22LR round.

However, after reading where a fellow made shotcups from milk jugs here, and the way they pattern better, I'm going to have to try this:
Revolver shot loads that WORK! - Cast Boolits

 

[Rule3]

Bob,

That sounds like the easiest method yet but will it work in a revolver? The shot already being in the rifle barrel has no jump from the cylinder to the barrel.

Andy,

That is a great link! He has that down to a pro level. He could sell those bad boys. To much work and precision for me.

 

[Bob Smalser]

Bob,

That sounds like the easiest method yet but will it work in a revolver? The shot already being in the rifle barrel has no jump from the cylinder to the barrel.

I don't see why not. The only setup where I'd hesitate is the long-cylinder/short-case scenario like all the 44 Special cylinders out there chambered for 45APC. Plus I'd stick to lead shot in a rifled barrel. And crimping the case mouth atop the overshot wad ILO or in addition to the wax would be good insurance against one coming apart in a chamber and making a mess.

This one is also a great tin-can load for the smaller grandchildren.

 

[couleeflyfisher]

shot loads

We used a light load of Bullseye, seal powder and shot with gas checks and a light crimp in 38's and shot a lot of rats at the local dump. After a good night session shooting rats the barrel looked like it had a thousand fingers of lead, but firing a couple jacketed rounds would pretty well clear and then just normal cleaning all that was required. Also good on snakes close up. I still have some of these old reloads and use them occasionally but now I use Speer capsules for my reloads. Speer recommends 5.5 gr. Unique or 4.5 gr. Bullseye for .38's.