OK, I asked about the 454 Casull, what about a 41 Mag?

[gregintenn]

I'd suggest you go price some ammo, or brass and bullets, and then decide how much better the 41 is than the 44. I bought a model 57 about 6 months ago. I have ammo for it, but I'd feel guilty about shooting it. I could sell the ammo and feed a third world country for a day.

 

[Jellybean]

It can take bullets up to 250-260 grains quite easily, but if you want to shoot that weight slug in one, buy a Ruger instead of a Smith. Not for strength (since the .41 is THE ideal size round for an N frame), but because the twist rate is too slow in a Smith for bullets much heavier than 220 grains. Rugers generally have a faster twist in them and will stabilize heavier bullets.

Did they change this Gun 4 Fun? I was looking at some older data sources after looking at the other .41 thread about using heavy bullets and noticed under .41 magnums they listed S&W using a twist of 1:18 3/4 while Ruger used a 1:20 twist, just like the standard for .44 mags. from both companies.

By the way, for the OPs record I'm a big fan of the .41 magnum S&Ws. (I have 10, plus 4 from other makers.) While I have no use for the .44 magnums, (I only own 5 of those total).

 

[SuperMan]

And my apologies to all of you 41 Mag Freeks.

I used to have a 41 Mag A S&W Mod 58 that I used as a foul weather Duty Gun, and an off duty gun in an upside shoulder holster with a second fited bobbed hammer...

Baised on its own ballistics, it is a good calibre.

It just did not make it to the Mainstream...

So why bother???? A 44 Mag is a better tool, as you can find ammo, 44 Mag or 44 Special in many, many more places...

I do wish, back in the day, that S&W made a M&P [like the Mod 58] in the 44 Mag...

All...please excuse NE...I have known him for 30+ years and while he means well one day many years ago while shooting his 4" M29 with 350 grain bullets the barrel hit him square between the eyes and he has not been the same since... He keeps mumbling about how his wife shot a squirrel with a Mountain Gun with Speer .44 ShotCaps at 40 yards... So since then he has been anti-.41 since no one makes shot shells for them... We keep humoring him but you know what head injuries are like...

OCD1..the correct answer to your problem is to sell off ALL the other calibers and just go .41....that is what I did and have been happily making NEs life miscible ever since....

Bob

 

[SuperMan]

Did they change this Gun 4 Fun? I was looking at some older data sources after looking at the other .41 thread about using heavy bullets and noticed under .41 magnums they listed S&W using a twist of 1:18 3/4 while Ruger used a 1:20 twist, just like the standard for .44 mags. from both companies.

By the way, for the OPs record I'm a big fan of the .41 magnum S&Ws. (I have 10, plus 4 from other makers.) While I have no use for the .44 magnums, (I only own 5 of those total).

...anyone who says that Smiths won't shoot heavy bullets accurately probably has not tried it. I've shot 255s & 265s in 57s and 657s and they are just as accurate as a Ruger or FAs...

Bob

 

[NE450No2]

Well, I can say that Superman has been shooting the 41 Mag for a long time, and the 38 Super, way way before it was the darling of the IPSC crowd...

However, I was shooting the 45 ACP and the 44 Mag while he was still being bottle fed... Way before my head inury...

Actually being an Elmer Keithite, a Skeeter Skelton follower, and a Jeff Cooper devote, I see the reason behind the original theory of the 41 Mag.

The Lead SWC 210 at @ 950 in a 4" for regular Police work, and the 210 SP at @ 1200 in a 4" for shooting through cars, etc. or @ 1380 in a 6" for hunting was a good plan.

The Mod 58 was an affordable gun for not only Depts. but for individual Officers as well. A few Depts. actually issued the Mod 58.

If the 41 Mag had remained popular it would have many good self defense factory HP loads for it today, just like the 44 Special, 44 Mag, 45 ACP and the 45 Colt...

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

...anyone who says that Smiths won't shoot heavy bullets accurately probably has not tried it. I've shot 255s & 265s in 57s and 657s and they are just as accurate as a Ruger or FAs...

I have, and it is what I have experienced myself first of all, but I will also refer you to John Taffin who writes about it in his book Big Bore Handguns that starts on page 144 and continues on page 161 (after all the nice pictures), top of the left hand column.

I have tried several weights all the way up to the 290 grain SSK truncated cone heavyweight in 3 different 57/657's all with 6" barrels. They (the 290's) either keyholed or sprayed all over the target in more of a pattern than anything that remotely resembled any type of group. I did not say that a Smith won't shoot the 250 grain class decently sometimes (depends on the bullet's design in my experience), but that the F/A was rifled specifically to fire heavyweights more accurately, which is a fact.

The F/A was designed specifically to fire heavier than normal bullets, with its strength and faster twist. I have yet to see a Ruger or S&W that will shoot neck and neck with a F/A day in and day out.

Jellybean,

I need to apologize to you here. I typed Ruger, but I was talking about the Freedom Arms model 83. I just had a serious case of brain fade. My bad, and again sorry for the confusion. BTW, S&W .44's have a 1-20" twist same as a Ruger.

I will edit the other post to correct that.

 

[GregG]

With the reloading components for .41 Magnum being what they are, I would not buy one with the intent of shooting it a lot. I live in a big town, but still have to mail order brass and bullets. The .41 spot on the sporting goods shelf is empty, while there are dozens of boxes of .44 bullets and brass.


I'm stuck though because a Model 57 was my first new handgun and I can't seem to fall out of love with it.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Which? Buying another gun, or getting divorced?

....BOTH!!

 

[Cd4eac]

I have killed 11 whitetails in as many shots with a .41 although mine is a T/C Contender. It will shoot better than I can do it justice. I have also used .45 long colt and .357 on deer. If you do your part the deer won't go far. The only slugs I have recovered are from Win. Silvertips and they showed excellent expansion. I like the .41, and consider it a great cartridge.

 

[Jellybean]

Gun 4 Fun, don't worry, I made a mistake once too. I also told a lie, once. Do you happen to know what twist FA uses in their .41 mags.?

Back to the discussion...I agree with the camp that says the .41 can do whatever the .44 mag can do, well, to a point. I'm sure if Dirty Harry had carried a .41 mag. it would be in the exact same spot as the .44 mag. now. Factory bullets are very limited compared to the .44 mag. and there have been several excellent ones for the .41 that were discontinued. But if you look at Lymans loading data, since they list both with a 4" barrel, bullet weight to bullet weight and pressure to pressure they are about the same, but the big difference to me, since I'm so dang cheap, is the lower amount of powder the .41 does it with. And besides, they are only about .019" smaller.

Personally, I don't shoot many factory bullets anymore. I have moulds for 100 gr. round balls and assorted bullets that range from 116 gr. to 240 gr. that all shoot very well out of my .41s. I also have a 300 gr. bullet mould that I've only shot out of my Marlin 1894s, and they are impressive! But the main thing is that for what I want them for, the .41 mag is a much better choice than the .44 mag, and I don't have to worry about someone fouling the cylinders with short brass. And by the way, someone does make shotshells for the .41 magnum, and if I have time this summer I will be doing some more experimenting in that field.

I suffered a frontal brain lobe injury when I was a kid, so I know how it can affect your life. My wife spent three months on the computer trying to show how that made me obsessive.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

Jellybean-

F/A uses a 1-14" twist in the M-83 .41 magnum according to their info that I have here.
IHTH

 

[Jellybean]

Thanks Gun 4 Fun, If I only had a little extra money laying around. The only single action .41 mag I have right now is an American Derringer, but that Freedom Arms idea is sorta giving me an itch.

 

[Sully]

So between 357 Mag, 44 Special, 44 Mag, 45 Colt What would a 41 Mag do for me?

I know a lot of folks like them and this is not a caliber war. I just never got one due to the other above calibers.

Is it worth setting up to load yet another caliber other than being a caliber short of a full load.

If I didnt already have my M629 Id buy one in a heart beat...probably will anyway..*S*. At present Im into bullet casting and getting my new reloader all setup...so getting a .41 isnt of my highest priority at present.

 

[David LaPell]

I've shot .41 Magnum's and .44 Magnum's and I like them both. I really have never been able to nail down which I like better between the two. I have shot both in identical guns. I have had a 4-inch Model 29, and a 4-inch Model 57. I have had Ruger's in both calibers. I can tell you that my .41 Magnums shot a little better with similar bullets. Does the .44 Magnum "hit" harder. I am sure it does, but by how much? Bullet diameter isn't really that far off, not enough that the whitetails know. One area that the .44 Magnum has the .41 Magnum is a practice round. There is no factory .41 Special, no parent round to practice with like the .44 Special to the .44 Magnum. If you handload this isn't a problem. If you buy factory, you will see why the .44 Magnum is more popular. Availability is always an issue with the .41. That, and when you do find the ammo, you're going to pay for it. I have been doing alot of research on the .41 lately, mainly on the .41 Special. I have been pushing some of the ammo companies to make a .41 Special. It is a goal of mine because I do like to shoot the .41, but it can be costly. I also like the thought of a practice round like the .41 Special, not to mention I would love to see Smith & Wesson make a gun in that caliber on a L frame. What a nice personal defense gun this would make. Taurus came up with their Tracker (and I'm not about to buy one of those) but for Smith it would be a win.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

Thanks Gun 4 Fun, If I only had a little extra money laying around. The only single action .41 mag I have right now is an American Derringer, but that Freedom Arms idea is sorta giving me an itch.

If you do go that route, let me know off forum. I have a little info specifically for the F/A .41 that will make your eyes pop.
Not a .41, but still something to make you itch even more-

 

[Jellybean]

Gun 4 Fun, if I ever did get one it would be pretty much just to work with that 300 gr. mould and maybe a few others if I get really hooked. I sort of out grew the idea of stuffing TNT down the barrel and load most of my stuff pretty mild anymore, unless it's for a specific purpose that needs to be heavier. I'd probably start the 300 gr. bullet with about 3 grs. of Bullseye. That's my all around starting point for lead bullets in the .41s. Do their cylinders have enough lenght to play around with seating depths?

David, using bullets of the same weight you can get pretty similar velocities out of both calibers. So they would hit about the same. (Since the factories don't make bullets for the .41 in the same weights as the .44 you would have to make your own to get them in the heavier weights.) But with the slightly smaller case capacity of the .41 you will get the same pressures with less powder.

The ability to shoot the specials has been a big boost to the other magnums, as has the inane publicity on several TV shows. Look at the .32 magnum caliber for instance, while it will shoot shorter cartridges it is no where near as popular as the .357 magnum or .44 magnum, even though it is a fine cartridge in it's own right. When the .41 magnum was first introduced it did have a lighter powered load for police work that was pretty much the same as a "special" round. Most people who bought the revolvers either shot the full magnum round for hunting or loaded their own for everything. I doubt that you will ever see the ammo makers load a .41 special cartridge as most people know it is not needed, unless you have a gun chambered for the .41 special only. You can load the full length cases to any power level from powder puff to magnum, and if you really want shorter cases you can trim them, but all you will get is a dirtier chamber and maybe a little less accuracy.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

Jellybean-

For all the various rounds of .44 magnum length, there is plenty of room to experiment with long heavy bullets.

 

[SuperMan]

JB...some 300 grain bullets will not chamber in the FA revolvers...not because they are too long, but because the throats are too tight. I've tried three or four different 295-305 grain bullets of LBT and SSK design and the LBT with the long nose won't chamber. I've been using them in a custom Gary Reeder instead...

The right gun is a 83 and the lower a 97...

This is the Reeder....

Next time I am shooting outside I'll try and bring some heavies and shoot them in the Smiths. I've only shot a few heavies in them over the years as most of the shooting I do with them is double action out to 50 yards with 210/950 fps loads...

Bob

 

[SuperMan]

Dave...the Trackers are NICE guns...even if they aren't Smiths..... I have one Titanium, one Stainless and one of the very rare 6" Titanium guns... There was also a 6" stainless but have never seen one...

I bought a bunch of .41 Special brass just to use in these because the cylinders are a little shorter than Smiths and Rugers. Really though the only bullet that doesn't fit is the 230 Keith from Leadhead...so for those I use the Special brass....

15 yards DA...left group was slow fire and the right group rapid fire.... You have to handle this gun to understand how light it is....

And by being all titanium Trackers don't have to have the flash gap protectors that the Smith AirLites do...

Bob

 

[biglar]

Any thoughts on converting a 27-2 to .41 mag, with a 1-14 twist rate?

I had been wanting a Freedom Arms in .41 mag, but I do not often shoot max. loads. Heavy slow moving slugs out of a Smith with a checkered top strap is sounding good to me.