Ok, just picked this up, what is it?

[Tamera]

Using the help us to identify your gun info on the forum, I can tell you this: 5 screw, hand ejector, pre war adjustable sights, 5" barrell, serial number B 5423xx, no model number. S & W 38 special ctg. My questions? What year was this probably made? What was it for? It's in excellent condition however the grips are pacmayr and not original. Can I shoot regular 38 special ammo in it? Is it valuable? Ok to shoot cans in the desert with?

Thanks, Tamera

 

[Jim Watson]

A Military & Police Target made sometime between the wars. Somebody will come along with a year or narrow bracket.
If a FACTORY 5" barrel and in nice condition, it is desirable and rather valuable, more $ than a 6" at least.
Close clear pictures would be a big help.

Yes, it will shoot current production .38 Special. I recommend midrange wadcutters or standard velocity lead roundnose or semiwadcutters.

 

[Texas Star]

That's no five-inch barrel. Measure from the cylinder face to muzzle. Some of the barrel is in the frame! The gun looks sound, but is NOT in NRA Excellent condition. The bluing wear at the muzzle alone suggests about NRA Very Good condition, and the poor photo may be hiding more finish wear or a brownish patina. I hope it's still mostly a nice deep blue. Barrel length is six inches. There's an outside chance of 6.5 inches, which would make the gun a pre-WWI item. Based on what I see of the extractor rod head, I think it's from the 1920's or '30's.


If the sights are original, that's a Military & Police Target model, which evolved into the Model 14 Masterpiece by 1957. It is probably very accurate...if you are! It's an ideal gun to learn marksmanship skills with.


The Pachmayr grips are excellent for making the gun fit most hands better and for reducing the amount of felt recoil. But take them off at least a few times a year and oil underneath, on the frame. Otherwise, trapped moisture can rust the gun frame. Pachmayr is a registered trade name, and is capitalized. The firm was founded by August Pachmayr, a German immigrant, I think. For decades, it was made famous by his son, Frank.


S&W do not recommend using Plus P (higher pressure/velocity) ammo in guns made before 1957, when model numbers appeared, and then only in STEEL (not light alloy) frames. Your frame is steel. But it was made before WWII, and later guns had improved steels and heat treatment for added strength. Standard velocity or target ammo with wadcutter bullets is fine.


Plus P ammo is meant to kill things better, not needed for cans. Sure, you can shoot cans in the desert, but clean them up after. And don't shoot at glass bottles. Plastic pop or water bottles are okay, as long as you remove them. Don't shoot at cactus blades or leaves without checking to see if that's now an environmental crime. I'm serious about that.
Everything is so PC today, and many species of cactus are now protected. Also, don't shoot at horned lizards/horny toads.


Bear in mind that some species of rattlesnake are also now protected by law. I don't want to see you turn up on one of those Animal Planet shows where park rangers and game wardens arrest people or write expensive tickets for shooting at things you didn't realize are now forbidden targets.


Also, although guns can now be carried in national parks in some states (with a concealed carry license), you may not be able to fire the gun there. Check on that. I hope to gosh that no park ranger zealot would file charges for discharging a gun in a park if you have to use it in self defense...

 

[rct269]

This isn't going to bracket it very close, but it'll get you started---and perhaps someone else will be along to get you closer. #404219 was shipped September 9, 1922-----------------#594161 shipped August 23, 1928.

And as an aside, if you'll measure the barrel length from the front of the cylinder, you'll likely find you have a 6" barrel.

As another aside, your serial number (which you likely got from the underside of the barrel) is 5423XX------the B is an internal communication signifying it was to finished in blue. The official/legal serial number will be found on the butt of the gun------------------necessitating removal of those particular grips.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[JP@AK]

Jim Watson pegged it - a .38 Military & Police Target model. Based on the serial number, 1926 would be a good guess, but it would take a Letter of Authenticity to be certain of the date it left the factory. The target models did not always ship in as orderly a fashion as the service models. Also, S&W did not ship guns in serial order.

That is a very nice piece. If you want original stocks, they would look like these. (This .38 M&P shipped in February, 1926).

 

[JP@AK]

And as an aside, if you'll measure the barrel length from the front of the cylinder, you'll likely find you have a 6" barrel.

True statement. Yours is clearly a 6" barrel. The one in my picture is a 5". Note how much closer to the front locking lug the front sight is on mine - a full inch difference.

 

[merl67]

Welcome Tamera others have gave you great info. A warning though if you do shoot this gun you will be stricken with an incurable disease known as Smith & Wessonitis. There is no known cure ( My wife has been searching for 10 plus years) symptoms include searching local pawnshops, gun shops, online auctions, and just about any where else you can think of. All joking aside that is a nice one get some period correct wood on it and enjoy it.

 

[Texas Star]

Period correct grips/stocks interest collectors, and most posting in this forum are collectors. For her purpose of shooting tin cans in the desert, I think the present Pachmayr grips are superior, at least if her hands are large enough. I have Pachmayrs on most of my revolvers.


Moreover, original stocks will seem pretty expensive to a non-collector, and only coincidentally will they precisely fit her individual frame, as stocks were individually fitted to a particular gun.

 

[ParadiseRoad]

...this is my M&P model of 1905 4th change target...serial number 4958xx ...made in 1925... with the correct matching number walnut stocks...I'd say yours was probably made in 1926 or early 1927...only about 10% or less of these revolvers were made with target sights...

 

[Sigobsessed]

Congrats, sweet revolver!

 

[Hondo44]

Welcome to the forum.

You have what's more commonly known as a GAT, sometimes a heater, roscoe, piece, etc.

Enjoy!

 

[murphydog]

Just to add a few comments to the information above:

Thank you for noting the letter B in front of the serial number, which you probably saw on the barrel flat near the ejector rod. This indicated the revolver came with a blued finish. You should see the same number stamped on the flat bottom of the grip frame, after removing the stocks. Ditto on checking for crud and (hopefully not) rust underneath them as well.

Target sighted guns cost extra, so it may have originally been purchased for that reason. Or it was the only .38 Military & Police at the shop 90 years ago, so someone just bought it . These were very popular sidearms for police but also for the general public.

Here is the link to obtain the letter mentioned above, with the understanding it will give you the date it left the factory, its destination and original configuration, but likely not the name of the person who bought it.

Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation - Letter Process - Insuring that the rich history of Smith & Wesson will continue for generations to come

If it is mechanically sound, it was set up to use 158 gr standard pressure lead and 148 gr target wadcutter loads and will probably last another 90 years doing so. An examination by a gunsmith or someone experienced with these would be a good idea if you are not sure of its mechanical condition.

These are worth more than a fixed sight gun of the same condition and era but subtract a little for the missing original stocks and finish wear, so I would guess $500-600. Paradise Road's example in post 9 is probably a $1000+ example.

Hope this is helpful and enjoy!

 

[serger]

Tamera, Welcome aboard!!.

You did well with that target model. The serial numbers on this era Smith are usually on:
1. The butt
2. The barrel
3. The cylinder
4. The yoke
5. The extractor star(on the cylinder side where it's hard to see)
6. The grips

I think you did real good on this one. The target models don't show up a lot.

 

[H Richard]

The recommendation to have a gunsmith look it over is a good one, and a good internal cleaning. That age firearm they did not have the lubricants we have now, and old oil/grease may be holding a lot of shooting residue and dirt, which would eventually cause accelerated wearing of the parts. Cleaning and proper lubrication will keep it running another 90-100 years or so with WC target loads.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! The front sight looks a little odd. Maybe the blade was replaced? I know S&W offered different blades, but the majority of those I've seen from the mid-20's were the tall, thin style blade. Anyway, you'll certainly enjoy shooting it. They are really fun.