Old Boxes and other ramblings????

[Bullet99]

Good evening all.

I was extremely fortunate to be able to spend time with what I consider one of the "big" gun sellers today. (please don't ask) The knowledge, advice and recommendations he was kind enough to pass on to me was extremely eye opening, valuable and helpful. I could not thank him enough..

I learned in the grand scale of collecting, I am but a "road bump"! (my description, not his. LOL) I've always "assumed" that most "pristine", "high end" collectable guns will never be available to the general public. I left realizing I was correct. No complaints on my part though. This a very enjoyable but expensive hobby!! It is truly amazing what's out there most of us never see other than pictures!!

With the above ramblings, one thing we talked about was that people are selling counterfeit boxes now. I guess I shouldn't have been surprised because their values have skyrocketed.

Hmmmm, now we have to look for refinished guns, proper grips being taken off (for profit) AND fake boxes! Will it ever end??

I'm willing to bet it's only going to get worse. While "technology" is great and as prices increase, it creates more ways to make knock offs and cheat. It stinks but anything for a dollar I guess.

In any case, I had an absolute incredible and eye opening day today!!! Priceless IMHO!!!!

Buyer beware though!!

 

[paplinker]

I knew a guy has been selling fake Colt boxes,but was unaware of S&W

Could you tell me what era S&W boxes are people faking?

 

[AC Man]

I have a collection of 1950's to 1980 44 mag & 41 mag. About 15 in all. They were all purchased this year in presentation case advertised as new in box. Some even have the shipping carton.

I can't tell any of them from the day they were shipped. That's good enough for me. Oh, I hate to admit what I paid, but that's what happens if you want the best or a pawn shop shooter.

 

[Bullet99]

I knew a guy has been selling fake Colt boxes,but was unaware of S&W

Could you tell me what era S&W boxes are people faking?

I believe the older more valuable ones.. This is why I posted this here. Boxes from the 70s and 80s are all over the place.

 

[Bullet99]

I have a collection of 1950's to 1980 44 mag & 41 mag. About 15 in all. They were all purchased this year in presentation case advertised as new in box. Some even have the shipping carton.

I can't tell any of them from the day they were shipped. That's good enough for me. Oh, I hate to admit what I paid, but that's what happens if you want the best or a pawn shop shooter.

Not sure what you paid but it sounds like you hit a home run! I was offered a new in shipping box, tools and all44 mag black box.. Too rich for me. LOL

 

[gmborkovic]

Mr. Bullet, a forty year old S&W blue box should look like its 40 years old.
Faded, tattered, rusty end staples, faded blue dye, etc...
Now, end labels are a different story. Since they make pretty good ones.
And they are stuck on old boxes. There are slight differences.

 

[glowe]

I am still waiting for someone to show us the first S&W pasteboard box that is fake. Never ran across one yet and am sure I could tell if I did. This subject comes up regularly as a "what if", but still no evidence it has occured, so why are we guessing?

Unreasonable prices are paid for everything Colt so there may be a profit to be had, but not yet the case for S&W boxes. There are very few pristine S&W boxes out there today and age and wear are extremely difficult to fake.

 

[glowe]

Mr. Bullet, a forty year old S&W blue box should look like its 40 years old.
Faded, tattered, rusty end staples, faded blue dye, etc...
Now, end labels are a different story. Since they make pretty good ones.
And they are stuck on old boxes. There are slight differences.

I do have one of the few S&W boxes that look new after almost 100 years, so they do exist. I bought it from Roy a few years ago when he was downsizing his collection. You can also find gold boxes that are as-new after almost 80 years as well. The gold box would be very hard box to fake.

 

[JP@AK]

I'm with Gary on this. I have lots of boxes that are 40-50 years old that look almost new. Some of them went from the gun shop (new) directly to my safe.

I have a few from 70-80 years old that also look nearly new.

Now, those from the WWI period (more than 100 years) aren't so good looking. But what would you expect? Nevertheless, some of them are pretty much intact.

I think most of the counterfeiting is of labels, not boxes - at least with respect to S&W.

 

[mrcvs]

These boxes are both about 130 years old. They don’t look brand new, but they also don’t look well over a century old, either.

 

[glowe]

Your images remind me of maybe an important fact that makes S&W period boxes hard to copy. If one looks at the paper and/or cloth surface of the boxes, there were many different materials used over the years. Unlike vintage Colt boxes that used the same paper covering over pasteboard for many years, S&W changed their boxes often and changed their interior labeling regularly. They also printed the caliber and barrel lengths, which was not found on the interior labels of Colt boxes.

 

[mrcvs]

Here’s another revolver I have in my collection with its original box, this being a Model 1 Third Issue, serial number 77335. This revolver shipped 30 July 1872, meaning the box is now 150 years old. Ex Roy G Jinks collection.

Does this box exhibit some wear? Yes. Does it look to be over 150 years old? No.

 

[gmborkovic]

I look at these old boxes as I do at original paint on an old car or the finish on antique furniture, you just know.