Old Colt - UPDATED - What is it? Image Heavy

[oink]

A friend who has a pawn shop took this old colt in. He doesn't know what it is. There are no patent dates on it. I'm certain it's a conversion of some sort but what did it start out as and who's conversion is it, if that's knowable. The hole where the ram was has been plugged and welded, and somewhat crudely ground down. The rest looks fairly well done from what I can tell. So any idea what it was, is, and possible value? I'll try to link some pics:

 

[robertrwalsh]

I am hardly an expert but to me it looks like a cartridge conversion of an older Colt cap-and-ball revolver. I could easily be wrong. YOu might try the Colt revolver forum though I am confident there are a lot of experts here too.

 

[SPEEDGUNNER]

I'm not seeing any pictures, or a link.

 

[damienph]

I am
Not seeing any pictures either

 

[rickyt]

I'm no expert , but I cannot see anything !

 

[sophie]

I see nothing at the moment.
Now I see some pictures, they just magically appeared.

 

[Hair Trigger]

I'm not seeing any pictures, or a link.

I am
Not seeing any pictures either

I'm no expert , but I cannot see anything !

I see nothing at the moment.

Use the Force....

 

[DWalt]

Chapter 6 of Adler’s book, “Colt Single Action from Patersons to Peacemakers” provides a fairly thorough treatment of the Colt cartridge conversions with many illustrations. I have not not looked at my copy for years, but I still have it. If you added some visible pictures, I could probably tell you exactly what it is. I can see no pix either.

For reasons I have forgotten, I passed up buying a fairly nice Colt conversion at a very good price in a garage sale maybe 20 years ago.

 

[oink]

OK, I put the pics somewhere else and updated the link in the foriginal post. See if that works.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

You will probably need a well-informed collector of early Colt revolvers to definitively identify this piece. Cartridge conversions of the Colt percussion revolvers were very common during the post-Civil War era, with 1860 Army .44 revolvers and 1851 Navy .36 revolvers converted to either rim-fire or center-fire cartridge use by several commercial gunsmithing companies (of varying reputations and skills). Colt offered their own conversions, then produced the transitional Model 1871-1872 "open top" revolvers as a factory-produced product rather briefly just before the new Single Action Army model was introduced in 1873.

What I see in the photos appears to be a transitional piece with the cylinder either modified from percussion to center-fire, or perhaps manufactured for cartridge ammunition, frame including a loading gate, and an extractor/ejection rod added to the barrel extension to facilitate cartridge use. The hammer (when retracted for cocking) will reveal either a center-fire type firing pin or a rim-fire type striker, and that will help to identify the era of manufacturer or modification as well as the producer.

Steel grip-frame and trigger guard tells me it is most likely a factory-produced variant. Caliber will help in differentiating between the various models, with .38 being most common for the Navy variants and .44 more common for the Army variants.

Grips appear to be well-aged ivory done as "one-piece" type, more typical of factory production than of the various conversion gunsmithing operations of that era. Ivory one-piece stocks are a very, very desirable collectible in and of themselves.

With the little information retained in my head, I am leaning toward either a Colt factory conversion, or an early transitional "open top" factory piece. Overall proportions, particularly the length of the grip-frame, lead me more toward the .44 Army type than the smaller .36 Navy variants, but the differences are difficult to tell from the photos. The revolver appears to be complete and functional, with all visible serial numbers (barrel group, frame, trigger guard) appearing to match, which would probably indicate a factory-produced "open top" model.

Definitely time to consult an expert on this one.

 

[Muley Gil]

Looks like a Model 1871-72 Colt Open Top.

Colt Model 1871–72 Open Top - Wikipedia

 

[Wyo]

That looks to me like one of Colt’s “12 Stop” Richards conversions of the 1860 Army. That was Colt’s first effort to convert the cap and ball guns to cartridge use. Three other designs followed. Interestingly, Colt didn’t call them conversions, they called them “altered” guns. I don’t know much about value of these but I would think an early 12 stop with ivory in reasonably good shape would be worth a considerable amount.

 

[Wyo]

Looks like a Model 1871-72 Colt Open Top.

Colt Model 1871–72 Open Top - Wikipedia

I thought so too at first but it has too many bolt stops and the rammer hole wasn’t welded up like that on the Open Tops.

 

[Darkenfast]

Saw a pic of a very similar 12-stop on an auction from 2022. Had a raised rear site at the back of the frame, otherwise looked just like the OP's photo. Auction realized $8,225!

Never heard of those before!

 

[SPEEDGUNNER]

Thanks for correcting the issue with the pictures. Great looking piece with most likely an interesting history. Waiting to find out more as others chime in.

 

[AJ]

Ask the folks over here: Colt Forum

 

[swagmeister]

What AJ said; they will give you a definite answer and all the information you want. If those are indeed factory genuine ivory stocks (which they look like to me but I'm far from an expert), they could be worth big $$$. Good luck.

 

[johngross]

I'm not too familiar with Colt conversions, but I can absolutely tell you the font on the serial numbers is not Colt's font from the 19th century.

Here's the font on the revolver you pictured.

And here's two which have the correct Colt font. One of them is close to your serial number range.

 

[Inusuit]

200406 serial number isn't listed for anything resembling this revolver.

 

[Wyo]

I notice one other thing about this gun that gives me pause. The early cylinders on these were converted percussion cylinders, and the metal in the original bolt stops was paper thin once the chambers were enlarged to take cartridges. It is very common to see these bolt stops actually blown out - they have holes that go through into the chambers - because of pressure that could not be contained by the thin cylinder walls at the bolt stops. Later cylinders were new-made to resolve this problem. I haven't seen many of these guns but, as I recall, every one I've seen had holes in some of the stops. I don't see any on this one which makes me wonder if it might be a replacement. Don't know the answer here but the lack of holes in the stops at least makes me wonder a bit.