Old Winchesters - What's the appeal?

[Whitens Moss]

Lotta snarky comments, but I have a thick skin. Yep, I've held both rifles and if I closed my eyes I bet I couldn't tell the difference in weight. And, hey, I can shoot pretty good groups with the Mosin from 100 yards with iron sights. Plus the ammo is cheap. Yep, agree Winchester is American as apple pie while the Mosin is Ruskie through and through. But my original point was value for the money. You can buy a Mosin and still have $1,500 left over for a good weekend in Vegas.

 

[scooter123]

The young today just don't seem to have any respect for true Craftsmanship. It's all about price and if the item is a bit crude looking with an indifferent finish, so what.

Yeah, there were many hundred thousands of the 1873 Winchester made and hopefully most are still in working condition. What has to be considered is that every single one of those rifles featured parts that were hand selected and fitted to produce one of the smoothest cycling rifles on the planet. Then you have to consider the value of this rifle as a collectable. Unfortunately that will probably decline in the future due to the current generations lack of consideration for History or Quality Manufacture. However, right now they are held in extremely high regard by us old fogies who remember what real quality once meant.

As for it being an "obsolete caliber" the 38 WCF or 38-40 is actually a 40 caliber. This means that there is an extremely wide selection of bullets available to load with and brand spanking new cases can be purchased from Starline. While not a powerhouse or exactly easy to find the 38-40 has been seeing a resurgence in popularity in Cowboy Action shooting and really shouldn't be considered obsolete. In addition it's an easy caliber to reload for because components are easy to find.

Personally, I were to happen on an 1873 in good working condition in the 38-40 caliber I would have to think long and hard before walking away from one for 1750 dollars. Because it would make for a very easy shooting rifle that would be relatively cheap to reload for.

 

[Jessie]

Lotta snarky comments, but I have a thick skin. Yep, I've held both rifles and if I closed my eyes I bet I couldn't tell the difference in weight. And, hey, I can shoot pretty good groups with the Mosin from 100 yards with iron sights. Plus the ammo is cheap. Yep, agree Winchester is American as apple pie while the Mosin is Ruskie through and through. But my original point was value for the money. You can buy a Mosin and still have $1,500 left over for a good weekend in Vegas.

I hope I didn't come across as snarky, wasn't my intent at all.

 

[rwsmith]

I like carbines in general............

But I don't think the Winchesters have 'mystique'. They've been incredibly popular since their inception for a good reasons. They are light, handy, compact and utilitarian. They do the job then and now. Always did a great job hunting in heavy forest and did the job hunting buffalo on the plains. I think they are fun as the Dickens to shoot.

 

[italiansport]

I tell my art history students there are five factors in determining the monetary value of art.

1. Age (older is generally better).
2. Scarcity...how many made or surviving?
3. Quality. Good is always good and better than bad.
4. Who did it? A painting by Rembrandt van Rijn will sell for more than one by Joe Smith.
5. "The Story" This explains why Vincent van Gogh's paintings sell for so much. They aren't that old, he produced about 2,000 of them so not scarce, I don't think they are all that good, but the tragic story of the suffering artist makes collectors want his work.

So let's look at this rifle.

1. 1889. Pretty old for a modern firearm.
2. Yes, they made lots of these, but how many survive in good condition? You don't see a nice original 1873 at every show.
3. Winchester is recognized as a quality name. One of the biggest, in fact.
4. See #3 response. Winchester made good stuff. They are revered by many.
5. The history of the brand name. The Old West. The movies. C'mon...pure Americana.

As an accredited appraiser I'll add a sixth factor for you and that's desirability.
An item can meet all of your 5 requirements but if no one or hardly anyone wants it the amount it's "worth" will be severly reduced.
Jim

 

[hittman77]

What am I missing?

An income large enough that $2k here and $35K there makes no difference.

 

[ladyT]

They are expensive because everyone wants one or more and not that many are left especially in good condition.

 

[gregintenn]

This reminds me of another thread here in the lounge.

Let's compare this to artwork. To me, a Renoir isn't any more appealing than a dogs playing poker print.

Many other people do not feel this way.

In this vein, I can see where you are coming from. Some people look at a gun as a tool. Others see a precious work of art. I fall into the second category. You likely fall into the first.

With artwork, I see something that will cover a bad spot in the drywall. Other people see much more.

That's why they make a variety of stuff; to try and cater to us all.

 

[Whitens Moss]

This reminds me of another thread here in the lounge.

Let's compare this to artwork. To me, a Renoir isn't any more appealing than a dogs playing poker print.

Many other people do not feel this way.

In this vein, I can see where you are coming from. Some people look at a gun as a tool. Others see a precious work of art. I fall into the second category. You likely fall into the first.

With artwork, I see something that will cover a bad spot in the drywall. Other people see much more.

That's why they make a variety of stuff; to try and cater to us all.

Good points. Guns are made to be shot, IMHO, and therefore I prefer a shooter over a collectible. I'm not without sentiment but when it comes to firearms I see them as useful tools, like any other, and generally not "works of art," although some of the old Berettas and other classics fit this category. I wouldn't put a Win 73 in this category, however, given that so many were made and largely mass-produced despite the inherent craftsmanship.

 

[Vegetaman]

I don't know either. That's why I bought a pair of Mosins for sub-$140 each out the door (both 1943 Izhevsks). Let other people with money to burn go for them "collectables".

 

[nawilson]

I don't remember Lucas McCain shooting a Mosin Nagant!

I think this is a big part of the crazy high values. Not to take away from the quality or craftsmanship, but a big part is a combination of a certain generation's nostalgia for the shows of their youth combined with a large disposable income.

 

[Bat Guano]

What is this "large disposable income" you speak of?

 

[chud333]

Ever hear of the Mosin that won the west?
Not trying to be a smart *** but there is the real answer
in a nutshell.
We Americans are pretty proud of our Heritage. Well.....
most of us are. Not withstanding a certain someone residing
at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

Chuck

 

[DR505]

This reminds me of another thread here in the lounge.

Let's compare this to artwork. To me, a Renoir isn't any more appealing than a dogs playing poker print.

Many other people do not feel this way.

In this vein, I can see where you are coming from. Some people look at a gun as a tool. Others see a precious work of art. I fall into the second category. You likely fall into the first.

With artwork, I see something that will cover a bad spot in the drywall. Other people see much more.

That's why they make a variety of stuff; to try and cater to us all.

I see firearms as tools as well. But look at it this way:

Winchester = Snap On
Mosin Nagant = Harbor Freight

 

[hangnoose]

VALUED THINGS FROM RUSSIA

Fabrage eggs, vodka, ballet dancers musicians, athletes chess players, guns, mail order brides & strippers, weapons grade plutonium?

 

[DR505]

Fabrage eggs, vodka, ballet dancers musicians, athletes chess players, guns, mail order brides & strippers, weapons grade plutonium?

I'll take

strippers, weapons grade plutonium

and you can keep the rest.

 

[bushmaster1313]

Winchester kept hitting the sweet spot.
Over and over.

Bottom two are Winchesters

 

[David LaPell]

I've had old Winchesters and I have also had old military rifles, including a Nagant rifle from before WWI. I can tell you there is a mystique to old Winchesters that few other guns can compete with. I have owned over the years a Model 1873 Winchester that was made in 1892, and 1892 that was made in 1894 and an 1894 that was made in 1895, but the one that really I wished I had kept was my 1894 carbine from 1909 that was in .25-35. From 1909 until 1999 or so it was in the same family. It was an original Utah sheep ranch gun and was used everyday. It was taken in and out of a saddle scabbard so many times that the wood on the forearm actually started to resemble a square. The buttstock was broke so the original owner rough cut a piece of Ponderosa pine into the shape of a buttstock and added the buttplate. It had been used, but the gun still worked and even when I got it the darn thing shot a 1-inch group every time. It's trying to imagine where a gun like that has been, what happened to it and what it went through. My grandfather had his Winchester from 1929 until 1994, I can't even imagine the deer that fell to that gun. I have seen pictures of him with a rabbit he took with a headshot. Guns like that tell a story and that story is what adds to the value. But it isn't just Winchesters, its old Marlins, Remingtons, and yes Smith & Wessons. Why does a Smith & Wesson Model 27 from the mid 1950's with a 3 1/2 inch barrel when a Model 28 is much cheaper? Why does a Model 19 from 1975 cost what it does when you could just go get a Colt Trooper or a Ruger Security Six? Because of the quality. It's one in the same.

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

More people want old Winchesters compared to the supply of old Winchesters than want Mosin Nagants compared to the supply of Mosin Nagants.

 

[Qball]

This one is a model 63 22lr. It is one of the very last made about in 1956 or 1957. Has the grooved reciever. I bought it brand new in the box for $165s around the later 1980s. I think these guns were a good investment. I have shot both lightly.

Nice.. i have one of it's big brother's
a 1910 in .401Wsl. Not as nice as yours though.

Wish i could find a 63 here in Sweden,
it would make a exelent compliment to the 1910