On push off of a S&W Revolver!

[target17]

Not long ago another guy and I were talking about this and he said he could push any of them off, factory or not. I brought out a S&W I had done a trigger job on and ask him to try and push it off, he did and it looked to be with little effort. The guy is big and very strong.
So what is considered exceptable when doing this test. He did roll the edge on the trigger a little, I was able to take care of it, but it didn't feel the same after that.
I just retired and have time on my hands, if I'm being a pest please say so. Thanks
Tom

 

[target17]

Not long ago another guy and I were talking about this and he said he could push any of them off, factory or not. I brought out a S&W I had done a trigger job on and ask him to try and push it off, he did and it looked to be with little effort. The guy is big and very strong.
So what is considered exceptable when doing this test. He did roll the edge on the trigger a little, I was able to take care of it, but it didn't feel the same after that.
I just retired and have time on my hands, if I'm being a pest please say so. Thanks
Tom

 

[OKFC05]

Well, I wouldn't let him touch any guns again.

The Kuhnhausen manual specifically states to use 16# of pressure to check push off, and notes other experts recommend 10 to 12 pounds. (page 59). I can push that hard with my little finger, and I'm not muscle man.

Of course excessive pressure can damage and release it. The idea is that it will not fire if bumped moderately.

Excellent question.

 

[38-44HD45]

What OK said. That fellow needs to be banned from handling Smith revolvers. Bet he likes to bend cranes by slamming the cylinder open and shut, too. What a jerk!

 

[Oldrifleman]

I have ask, what is push off? I have seen it mentioned, but I am a newbe to discussing revolvers.

 

[38-44HD45]

If a Smith revolver has been abused or incorrectly "smithed" to improve SA trigger pull, the hammer can be pushed off the sear portion of the trigger when cocked. I.e., you cock the hammer, and then push on the hammer, and it releases. In extreme cases, it may not even stay cocked when untouched.

 

[target17]

Thank you this is what I was looking for, numbers! I would thank any could be pushed off if enough force was used.
Tom

 

[Oldrifleman]

Thanks! That helps.

 

[target17]

To oldrifleman: I did'nt look to see if some one answered you. Push off is a term used on single action revolvers that when the hammer is in full cock or all the way back a little push on the hammer well cause it to fall and fire.
It can be a number a reasons, Some body tring to put a hair trigger on thier gun, and of course enough years of ruff treatment will do it. There is endless reasons that could cause it. Hope this helps, if not say so!
Tom

 

[target17]

It was a short friend ship. I thought of a lot to say to him, but, I was the one that handed him my gun after hearing him say he could push it off so I felt pretty dum. It was a good lesson, and I'll bet some of you guys are wandering about me but are just being nice. It was one of those brain dead moments!
Tom

 

[bountyhunter]

Don't feel bad. I have a 686 that I fine tuned the trigger down to a 5# SA pull smoother than oiled glass and I let this numnutz in our league look at it.

he started snapping the trigger as fast and hard as he could until I took the gun back.....

I was tempted to rap him over the head with it but I figured that could throw the sights off.

 

[shawn mccarver]

Originally posted by bountyhunter:
Don't feel bad. I have a 686 that I fine tuned the trigger down to a 5# SA pull smoother than oiled glass and I let this numnutz in our league look at it.

he started snapping the trigger as fast and hard as he could until I took the gun back.....

I was tempted to rap him over the head with it but I figured that could throw the sights off.

If it will not survive dry firing as fast and hard as anyone can, then the trigger job is not properly done. You don't hold back in a fight - you pull the trigger hard and fast!

 

[bountyhunter]

Originally posted by shawn mccarver:

Originally posted by bountyhunter:
Don't feel bad. I have a 686 that I fine tuned the trigger down to a 5# SA pull smoother than oiled glass and I let this numnutz in our league look at it.

he started snapping the trigger as fast and hard as he could until I took the gun back.....

I was tempted to rap him over the head with it but I figured that could throw the sights off.

If it will not survive dry firing as fast and hard as anyone can, then the trigger job is not properly done. You don't hold back in a fight - you pull the trigger hard and fast!

If you think repeatedly hard snapping a trigger is a OK to do to a revo (or, worse yet, do not realize what parts of the action are getting beaten up and peened when you do it), please keep away from my guns.

I never said it was bad idea to NOT pull the trigger fast in a gunfight, I said it was an uncommonly stupid thing to do when dry firing a beautiful gun dialed in for PPC shooting.

 

[dirtysanchez]

Surely you mean a 5# DA pull? A 5# SA pull wouldn't pass initial armourers inspection for a smith revolver.

 

[bountyhunter]

Originally posted by dirtysanchez:
Surely you mean a 5# DA pull? A 5# SA pull wouldn't pass initial armourers inspection for a smith revolver.

Yes, it was a 5# DA pull. The SA pull was about 1.5# as I recall.... definitely not for the twitchy fingered user.

 

[dirtysanchez]

Nice.....

 

[target17]

I was pretty sure it was a mistake and didn't say any thing. However it brings up a question.
On a S&W K & above, if you set your S/A to (2)lbs., do you then know what your D/A/ will be? Is there a ratio of some sort? I'm using a Wolff or Wilson reduced Spring kit, for example, and a reasonable polishing of everything.
Tom

 

[bountyhunter]

Originally posted by target17:
I was pretty sure it was a mistake and didn't say any thing. However it brings up a question.
On a S&W K & above, if you set your S/A to (2)lbs., do you then know what your D/A/ will be? Is there a ratio of some sort? I'm using a Wolff or Wilson reduced Spring kit, for example, and a reasonable polishing of everything.
Tom

There is no ratio. The DA and SA weights are determined by several things. The DA pull is predominantly the mainspring, the SA pull is more the rebound spring and the sear angles.

With a good polish on the appropriate places and use of the Wolff reduced power springs, the DA pull should drop to something in the 8 pound ballpark.

 

[target17]

Thanks, with the Wolff the strain screw needs to be all the way in on D/A or I start getting failure to fire around 2-5 out of 50. This is on a S&W 66 2.5" bl.
Tom

 

[bountyhunter]

Originally posted by target17:
Thanks, with the Wolff the strain screw needs to be all the way in on D/A or I start getting failure to fire around 2-5 out of 50. This is on a S&W 66 2.5" bl.
Tom

The wolff spring is designed to work with the stock strain screw all the way in. If you shorten the screw or back it out, you will see misfires.