On the fence M&P vs. RJF

J Rich

J Rich

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As it says. I'm on the fence about buying a M&P AR vs. buying Red Jacket Firearms KMP AR.I can get the RJF KMP for about $200 more (give or take).

I'm looking for honest opinions or real experiences with these AR's. I KNOW I'm on the S&W forum, but I'm not looking for bias opinions. The M&P is not the end all be all, neither is the RJF KMP.
 
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All I can say it that the S&W M&P15 is made in house by a reputable firearms company that has been around for a long time and is going to be around for a long time. No disrespect to RJF ( I wasnt sure who you were referring to until I opened the thread) But they are just one of a lot of Boutique rifle assemblers. Buy the rifle that you want, that is the one who is going to make you happy with your purchase. I have never seen an RJF rifle but they are on TV and there is a lot of notoriety that comes with that. I am happy with my M&P15, I built it to my satisfaction and it looks nothing like it did when it came home. I knew I was going to change it maybe not as much as I have but.....Purchase what makes you happy anything else and you will be doing the whatif's..I just looked it up, It looks just like an MOE with a different roll mark and a different flash suppressor, I dont know what their warranty is like but as I said buy what you want!
 
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They both will get the job done... And since it's your money I'd recommend getting what you like. Bias will permeate most any response you get here or anywhere. It's my biased opinion that you'd be better off spending the difference in cost for ammo. You are welcome to take that for what little it's worth... ;)
 
I will say I'm new to AR's so I don't know a whole lot about them or the terms or different parts that makes one better than the other. They both shoot .223 the RJF can shot5.56 so ammo price isn't an issue. I not looking for someone to make a choice for me. I know S&W is a quality manufacturer and I'd like to think RJF is to. I'm not sure of which one will make me happy. I'm just tring to hear both sides to make an educated decision.
 
J Rich said:
I will say I'm new to AR's so I don't know a whole lot about them or the terms or different parts that makes one better than the other. They both shoot .223 the RJF can shot5.56 so ammo price isn't an issue. I not looking for someone to make a choice for me. I know S&W is a quality manufacturer and I'd like to think RJF is to. I'm not sure of which one will make me happy. I'm just tring to hear both sides to make an educated decision.
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they both shoot 5.56. Red Jacket buys quality parts and assembles them, S&W makes their own except for the MOE which also has the Magpul furniture like the RJF you are looking at. I am not sure if anyone in the forum has an RJF but if someone does they will come along and speak up.
 
Stick with a known name brand maker (S&W, Colt, BCM, DD, Noveske). After watching some of their shows, I don't like how they hack some things to make them work. I remember one where the guy that's popping the owners daughter could not figure out a problem with an AR. It turned out to be a buffer/spring problem! This chart should help you out and explain a lot for you.
 
I tried to explain the difference between a manufacturer and an assembler!!
 
Unbiased reply:

Either AR should serve you well.

Ask yourself this. If both rifles have equal function & equal reliability, which one would you choose? Is the $200 premium for the RJF brand roll mark worth it?

If the RJF roll mark is what you really want, get it. I can understand the implied cool factor of having an RJF roll mark and showing it off to friends who enjoy the show.

Buy what makes you happy.
 
I havn't seen or heard of anyone that owns a RJF assembled weapon. That being said, I'm sure whatever you decide to purchase will indeed make you happy.
 
storeyteller said:
I havn't seen or heard of anyone that owns a RJF assembled weapon. That being said, I'm sure whatever you decide to purchase will indeed make you happy.
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Me either. I dont think they are easy to come by. After watching all the disfuction on that show, and the legal problems with the FFL holders, I dont think I would want to spend my money at RJF. I had a jamming problem on my brand new OR. I called S&W, boxed it up, wrote a letter explaining the problem, and had it back with a brand new upper in 16 days. I am almost positive that would NEVER happen dealing with RJF. To the OP ... save some cash, buy a sport, and throw some Magpul furniture on it, and go shooting man!
 
S&W brand for me!

if i was a novice in ar's,
and i was and still am,
then i'd get a known and then later
broaden into something more esoteric.
 
I never see RJ mentioned or considered when I see others on multiple sites making a decision on ARs. There are a lot of options out there. As Oneye mentioned, they are an assembler, not a manufacturer of ARs.
 
Red Jacket had a reputation as a mediocre gunsmithing business before the show began airing. I cannot see that anything has changed? I wouldn't spend top dollar on a mediocre build when I could get much more for the same $.
 
I would go with the M&P rifle for one reason, it has a life time warranty.
 
I might get flamed for this but I couldn't help it.....These are just funny!!!
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Get a Smith&Wesson. You won't regret it.
 
Programs like "Sons of Guns" and "Top Shot" are what got me more interested again in shooting. When I happened to catch a Top Shot episode where the contestants used an M&P 40. I was hooked and started to research the M&P line. After a few weeks I had the chance to handle a M&P .40. I was so impressed with the quality and feel that I did some more research, and bought the 40. I picked up a Sport a few weeks later. Zero regrets on S&W. I will admit I looked into a lot of manufacturers, RJF being among them but I could not justify the cost for the name. The S&W M&P are made and assembled here in the US, have a lifetime warranty, and years of reliable service to back them up. I'll admit that having an RJF or a Gunsmoke brand would be cool, but the bottom line is I'm not made of money and the M&P's will do everything the "boutique brands" do equally(if not better) for less money.
A very favorite photographer whose work I have admired for 30 some years was once asked what equipment he used because his work was so beautiful. He exclaimed what brand he used, but then said that not once had the camera ever gone out and taken a picture by it self. It's not the equipment. It's how it's used that's more important.
 
RJs seem like a lot of money for an assembly of bin parts. An M&P "T" model is a better rifle for about the same or less money. At least get a free float forend IF you spend 1200 or so dollars!:)
 
I agree with you KeithR. I am glad there are shows out there like this. Though I am not a huge fan of the whole "reality" genre. It helps garner interest in shooting and does it's part to keep the culture alive and in the public eye and in a positive light. Doesn't mean I'd want Chris (the guy who's popping the daughter) from RJF to build me an AR15 though. I do also like that both S.O.G's and American Guns try to open the gun world/market more to women as well. It all helps.
 
KeithR said:
...A very favorite photographer whose work I have admired for 30 some years was once asked what equipment he used because his work was so beautiful. He exclaimed what brand he used, but then said that not once had the camera ever gone out and taken a picture by it self. It's not the equipment. It's how it's used that's more important.
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The quality of the equipment is very important. An AR-15, IMO, is a fighting rifle first and everything else second. It is a tool. You have to pick the correct tool for the job at hand. A hobbyist may pick one brand of tools, while a professional may pick a different more expensive brand. While the "pro" COULD use any tool and get the job done, his tools will have better durability and closer tolerances. You could give a novice a high end camera and that person will still take pictures at the level of their ability. You give a pro a camera phone and they could do wonders BUT give the pro a high end camera and wonders become magical. While the abilities of a person are important, good equipment is also important.
 
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Take this with a grain of salt but, from what I hear red jacket has been having customer service problems. From what I can gather they have so many defense or military obligations they're regular customers are getting pushed to the side. I heard their ARs are reliable but when theres a problem they can take QUITE a while to straighten them out. I would definitely investigate this before you make a purchase on a red jacket product.
 
I have a S&W Sport and absolutely love it. I haven't heard of anyone buying a S&W AR and being sorry they bought it. Can't say the same for other well known AR's.
 
I apologize for what seemed like a severely biased group of responses to your post. I honestly believe had you compared the S&W to another manufacturer the responses would have been different because the members of this forum own so many different makes of AR's. So please dont take anything personal about the responses you received, but I sensed along time ago the difference between a manufacturer and an assembler and how AR owners look at the two. You will be happy with whatever rifle you decide to purchase but it is hard to compare apples to oranges.
Grover
 
I have to agree with oneyeopn, buy what ever AR you want. Most of the time, the person asking the question already has their mind made up. I don't watch Sons of Guns :eek: so if you were to have shown me a RJF ar I wouldn't know it from a Colt, S&W, DD, etc. I just purchased my first AR, a S&W Sport without the dust cover or forward assist and I love it. Like you, I did my research before I bought. Being a first time AR buyer I didn't want to buy over-my-head. Being higher priced does not mean better buy. Don't get me wrong. There are pluses for buying a rifle that's custom made rather than buying one that comes assembled on an assembly line. If dollars aren't an isssue for you I'd skip the RJF and buy a Daniel Defense. JMHO
 
Thank You folks for all the replies. I have taken nothing personally. I don't believe just buying what you THINK want will make you happy. Because I wouldn't be happy paying more for a lesser item and bad service. I got what I was looking for from this thread. I was just wondering if maybe someone here has Owned or had real experience with the RJF ar , I guess that's no.

I'm off the fence! S&W M&P it is. I will now start researching the different models of the M&P ar's cause I do want to know why one costs $550 and $1000 for another.


Thanks again. Happy shooting.
 
J Rich said:
I will now start researching the different models of the M&P ar's cause I do want to know why one costs $550 and $1000 for another.
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The 15-Sport is less expensive due to:

  • The omission of a dust cover.
  • The omission of a forward assist.
  • The use of standard AR furniture.
  • A trigger guard that is integral to the frame.

Those omissions decrease the amount of machining, parts, assembly & fitting. I own a 15-Sport, and none of the omissions has a negative effect.

The gem of the 15-Sport is the 1:8 5R Melonite barrel. I believe this barrel has been ported over to other M&P 15 rifles in the lineup.

If the 15-Sport isn't your cup of tea, check out the new MOE Midlength rifles. They have the 1:8 5R barrel with a mid-length gas system.
 
Oh I wanted to add, One of the biggest reason I believe that I and maybe others have about assemblers is the fact we have assembled our own and find that there is not a lot of difficulty in it. You can buy all the best parts and put it all together and make what you want, and its extra cool cause you built it. :D
 
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