One in the Chamber

[miles71]

Quote:
Originally Posted by miles71
Carry gun is different than my carry most of the time, I unload it everything I get home and put tin the safe. I inspect the chamber round and if it seems good it stays the chamber round. Once issues on the rim are present it gets shoot of at the range, I have had some really buggered up rounds fire just fine. Yes, I carry one in the chamber in the 4013.

"Bump n the night" gun is different. Nothing in the chamber but a full mag. I want to be awake enough to chamber a round before I decide I need to shoot. If someone is that far in my house,past the k9 alarm system, to the point I need to be quick draw McGraw I am I other trouble. Also something to be said about hearing that 4566 slide getting cycled nice and loud and obvious.

No matter what, be prepared my friends.
TD
Your "noise" will do nothing but let them know exactly where you are. To each their own. But I will never be caught without one in the chamber. And if God forbid my wife gets to my gun first, the last thing I want is for her to have to chamber a round. YMMV

I don't think someone is entering my house to be in a shoot out, prob looming for something to steal. Also, I bet these thieves are not trained tactical teams. My main goal is to get them out of my house and keep my family safe, not to sneak up on them. My wife is more than capable of chambering a round.

Hearing a slide rack is different than seeng me as well. As with most things, to each his own.
TD

 

[Lost Lake]

I have never paid much attention to which rounds have been chambered before and which are fresh.

I realize bullet setback can occur because I have recently read about it here.

I just never considered it.

Is it really something we all should think about or is it a fluke?

I have chambered and removed ammo from a couple of my semi-autos and I have noticed no set-back changes.

Is the problem prevalent in certain guns or with certain ammo?

.

 

[MarTay6]

Newbie here... what is setback- and the ramifications?? My previous gun experience was with match weapons which were normally kept unloaded- loaded & fired on the range only. Only recently getting into issues of carry weapons, and the issue of using the same gun for home defense/concealed carry/range use. Trying to think through these combinations of use smartly.
Wes

 

[Protected One]

Newbie here... what is setback- and the ramifications?? My previous gun experience was with match weapons which were normally kept unloaded- loaded & fired on the range only. Only recently getting into issues of carry weapons, and the issue of using the same gun for home defense/concealed carry/range use. Trying to think through these combinations of use smartly.
Wes

Setback refers to the bullet being "pressed" furthur into the casing due to the repeated chambering of the same round. This increases the pressure/compression of the powder, which, in some peoples eyes presents a danger. Hornady even addresses the issue in their Critical Defense and Critical Duty ammunition, by putting cerations in the jacket to prevent setback.

 

[Doug M.]

During the Great Southeastern Asia Games, the US Army conducted some experiments - actually, it wasn't supposed to be an experiment, it was the introduction of the M16 and it didn't go so well. Some, but certainly not all, of the problems were resolved by the introduction of the M16A1.

My experience was that a clean weapon still occasionally malfunctioned, just not as often as a not-clean weapon. The Army's recommendation, and our common practice, was basically to clean continuously - not just after firing, but any dust, mud or crud of any type.

YMMV

*
With that experience it would be surprising if you did not have that response. However, we are several generations of successor versions of the AR platform later, the improperly loaded (wrong type of propellant) ammo is long gone from most stockpiles), and we are untold numbers of gnerational improvements in lube later.

One of my friends and mentors did his time in the same test environment, and then a full career in LE and the Corps. He has seen untold millions of rounds go downrange from AR platforms, shot them to catestrophic failure, etc. Another savvy guy (Dean Caputo) has a similar experience level - and they both say the same about cleaning.

I got the same silliness about cleaning my pistol in the academy. It should have gone the whole period on just lube; that was maybe a couple thousand rounds.

 

[Poodle Soup]

Every time I unchamber a round it goes down in the magazine a few bullets. I double check them before putting them back in.

I clean my gun every time I shoot it (I try to shoot once a month).. I also think not cleaning what your carrying around because it SHOULD fire 500000000+ rounds before a failure is silly.

Having a clean fire arm is one part (of a very crazy equation) that YOU can control. Cleaning also makes your more familiar with the gun.

And I personally just like taking things apart and putting them back together.

 

[carpriver]

I remove all six/7 from the cylinder every couple days when I wipe the firearm down. I carry a revolver.

 

[Capt.Jim]

What is bullet setback?

 

[Protected One]

What is bullet setback?

See post #24

 

[Mcwsky09]

What about Free-Travel clearance

So if setback is caused by factors such as the nose of the round running up the ramp as the slide pushes the round into the chamber - what about any kinetic effects on the projectile as the case mouth hits the end of the chamber and nothing but the barrel is front of the bullet? Might there be enough kinetic energy to cause the bullet to move forward in the case? Or would the base of the projectile hit the lands and grooves in the barrel also contributing to possible setback?

the pic is not from a handgun - but has lots of info that might be relevant here

So far the only times I have removed and reused an unfired round was during function testing and some cleaning/adjusting - and while I have kept loaded magazines in the firearms in my bedside safe - I have not been keeping a round chambered - that may change in a couple days when I get my concealed carry permit. Still thinking through the options - my most likely carry weapon for now will be a Bodyguard 380 which has a slide lock safety - so I am thinking either loaded chamber safety on - or unloaded chamber safety off - either way only one step to be ready to fire. Might change after getting comfortable with carry method (IWB, appendix, etc). The M&P 45 is a bit bulky for concealed - also looking at possible 9mm compact options.

 

[M29since14]

So if setback is caused by factors such as the nose of the round running up the ramp as the slide pushes the round into the chamber - what about any kinetic effects on the projectile as the case mouth hits the end of the chamber and nothing but the barrel is front of the bullet?

Never heard of anything like this in a pistol. I doubt there is enough inertia at work to pull a bullet from a cartridge as the pistol's slide returns to battery.

I am from the school that tries not to re-use ammo that has been cycled into the chamber and then extracted later. I also agree with the poster who said the gun is designed to load a cartridge from the magazine, not "snap" the extractor over the rim of a cartridge that has been dropped into the chamber.

Using previously chambered rounds for range practice still presents the same danger of setback and an over-pressure incident, it is just present in a less threatening environment. Since I hate to tear down really expensive ammo, my rule of thumb is to fire the cartridge at the range only if it has been previously chambered once. If it has been chambered twice, it gets torn or saved for firing in revolvers (9mm and .45) - further proof of my inherent cheapness.

 

[miles71]

After reading these responses I became concerned about set back. I rechamber the same round vArious times since I unload after carrying. I have a 40 cal fed HST that has been rechambered prob. 20-30 times. I measured the round and there is NO setback at all. I did notice a little bit of a chewed up rim on the round, which will cause it to be fired next time at the range, but nothing else at all noticeable.

Do I just have a great round? Not sure i see the issue

TD

 

[M29since14]

Do I just have a great round? Not sure i see the issue

It's not a problem until you have a problem. I wouldn't do that, especially with a .40SW, but use your own judgment. There is no black/white answer, but remember, as Dr. Schuler used to say, "Bad things DO happen to good people." Is one round worth more than your safety? Compare the cost of a box of ammunition to a new gun, or repair work on the fingers of your gun hand.

 

[Smitty357]

I carry my weapon for self defense, not for the "im cool" factor. In this case my weapon is always hidden and always carried hot. When a threat presents itself, i want to be able to eliminate the threat as soon as possible. If its his life or mine, i dont want to me the one chambering a round while he's the one pulling the trigger or pulling his knife from my throat.

Also, very rarely do i unchamber the live round. Of course i do when cleaning my weapon as any properly trained person should. But other then that, i dont play with my carry weapon and I dont show it to all my buddies. There should be no reason for me to have to unchamber my weapon for anything besides the usual cleaning. I dont have kids running around my house (me and the ole lady are adults). 99% of the time where my weapon goes, it goes with a chambered round.

 

[miles71]

What are the signs of set back? What should I be looking for in a potential unsafe round?
TD

 

[Poodle Soup]

What are the signs of set back? What should I be looking for in a potential unsafe round?
TD

Measure the bullets. Some have groves to prevent setback (horanday critical defense like stated above) If the groove you normally see is gone the bullet is set back.

Just don't rechamber the same bullet over and over again and all should be well.

 

[Desertpilot]

Maybe I am missing the point. Once a month I head to the range. I empty the mag that has been loaded in my weapon for the past month. I fire all 10 rounds to empty the mag. Then I proceed to use practice rounds. I am building my confidence each month that my loaded weapon will actually fire, even after being carried unused for several weeks.

M&P 40c. Speer gold dot hollow points (180 gr).

Marcus

 

[Arik]

Maybe I am missing the point. Once a month I head to the range. I empty the mag that has been loaded in my weapon for the past month. I fire all 10 rounds to empty the mag. Then I proceed to use practice rounds. I am building my confidence each month that my loaded weapon will actually fire, even after being carried unused for several weeks.

M&P 40c. Speer gold dot hollow points (180 gr).

Marcus

No, youre not missing the point but you dont have to empty the mag once a month. FMJ is just as good to make sure your weapon functions. I empty my once-twice a year. Especially now when good defensive rounds are hard to come by. I too carry Speer Gold Dot 124gr +p 9mm

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[Protected One]

Once you have established that a particular round feeds well in your firearm there is no "practical" need for emptying your mag every month.
Ammo will not "go bad" (under normal circumstances), nor change its ability to feed.
I just fired an 18 year old box of 9mm through my handgun...fired just as well as when it was new!

 

[Retired LTC USAR]

Has anyone taken a micrometer and measured a new round, then chambered and rechambered that same round a couple of dozen times and then remeasured the round to see how much, if any, bullet setback there really is?

Would make an interesting experiment and would put to rest this argument/discussion.