One more valuation question - pair of engraved model 60s

[mturnerb]

I have a pair of model 60's with original boxes, but the SN's are not that close (R6841 and R9124). Beautiful stainless with ornate engraving, and matching gold eagles. I've been told that some of the guns from this collection were engraved by Alvin White but don't know if this pair is among them.

Does the pair have more value than individually?

Thoughts on general value?

All suggestions appreciated.

Link to detailed photos of both (sub folder for individual guns):

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/z4h078uuod5a0ydreot5q/h?dl=0&rlkey=f2to4by4qt1wyx8etrvp6z3cw

 

[Model19man]

I don't know much except I like them a lot. The engraving looks very good. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable on the engraving will give you more details.

 

[22hipower]

Have you lettered them? Often it is possible to tell if factory engraved by the small logo on the left side although as M60s had the logo on the left side, mine do anyway, I don't know if that helps in this case. I like them, as to value, hard to say. Maybe $3k each although that is just a guess based on what I would be willing to pay.

Alvin White? Another noted master engraver? If so, my estimate is probably low. Perhaps RKmesa will be along and can enlighten us.

Worth more as a pair? Not sure. Certainly do like them though. More pictures of both sides and close up would be interesting and helpful.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[mturnerb]

Have you lettered them? Often it is possible to tell if factory engraved by the small logo on the left side although as M60s had the logo on the left side, mine do anyway, I don't know if that helps in this case. I like them, as to value, hard to say. Maybe $3k each although that is just a guess based on what I would be willing to pay.

Alvin White? Another noted master engraver? If so, my estimate is probably low. Perhaps RKmesa will be along and can enlighten us.

Worth more as a pair? Not sure. Certainly do like them though. More pictures of both sides and close up would be interesting and helpful.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

If you click on the link there are more photos with more detail. Thanks for the information - very helpful.

 

[KSK]

mturnerb, I believe all your Model 60's were engraved by the R.E.I. firm out of Chicago circa 1970. Below is a photo of a similar engraved Model 60 featured in the 1970 Gun Digest. I hope this helps.

Additionally, here is a link that may be helpful: Outstanding Engraved Gold Inlaid Smith & Wesson Model 60 Double Action Revolver

 

[mturnerb]

mturnerb, I believe all your Model 60's were engraved by the R.E.I. firm out of Chicago circa 1970. Below is a photo of a similar engraved Model 60 featured in the 1970 Gun Digest. I hope this helps.

Additionally, here is a link that may be helpful: Outstanding Engraved Gold Inlaid Smith & Wesson Model 60 Double Action Revolver

Thank you so much for this information. I had no idea regarding the REI company. Any suggestions how this might be verified?

The era (1969) makes sense: Jack (my stepfather) was most active as a collector in the 50's, 60's, 70's period. He had an amazing collection when he passed in 1992. Mom's selling the old house so we're having to make decisions about remaining items in the collections (not only guns but other collectible items).

 

[Doc44]

Based on what I paid for a factory engraved Model 60 a few years ago, I would think $6,500 to $7,000 for the pair would be a fair price. However, if the two revolvers are virtually identical, it may be best to sell them individually.

Bill

 

[2152hq]

Looks like Shiro Ogawa's work., and he did do work for REI which was located in Forest Park. Il.
Another that did work through REI was Katsuo.luro (?might have the proper name mispelled).
He was a student of Ogawa but I don't believe he even came to yhe USA to engrave. Instead work was sent to Japan for him to do and then returned here.
Things were much easier before 1968..

Ken Eysters Heritge Gun Shop in Ohio(?) used to employ the work of at least a couple Japanese engravers. I think Ogawa may have cut for them as well.

The English Style scroll work on the one M60 posted looks very much like Ogawa's work.
English style scroll is not something a Japanese trained engraver would normally cut. Plus the style itself is of so many different pattern and cut types that there is no way to really catalog them.

It's just the very minute way the scrolls are cut and detailed, or lack ofit when compared to others.
Most any decent engraver can cut 'English'. But when done,,they will all have something slightly different about the pattern and cutting.

Also, the simple broad leaf pattern that stretches across the locking bolt notches and around thecircumference of the cylinders is about the same on all of the revolvers. Something an engraver (same one?) seemed comfortable with, or perhaps was a pattern developed by one engraver and then followed by others doing the cutting in a shop.

The gold inlay work is very nicely done.

 

[mturnerb]

Looks like Shiro Ogawa's work., and he did do work for REI which was located in Forest Park. Il.
Another that did work through REI was Katsuo.luro (?might have the proper name mispelled).
He was a student of Ogawa but I don't believe he even came to yhe USA to engrave. Instead work was sent to Japan for him to do and then returned here.
Things were much easier before 1968..

Ken Eysters Heritge Gun Shop in Ohio(?) used to employ the work of at least a couple Japanese engravers. I think Ogawa may have cut for them as well.

The English Style scroll work on the one M60 posted looks very much like Ogawa's work.
English style scroll is not something a Japanese trained engraver would normally cut. Plus the style itself is of so many different pattern and cut types that there is no way to really catalog them.

It's just the very minute way the scrolls are cut and detailed, or lack ofit when compared to others.
Most any decent engraver can cut 'English'. But when done,,they will all have something slightly different about the pattern and cutting.

Also, the simple broad leaf pattern that stretches across the locking bolt notches and around thecircumference of the cylinders is about the same on all of the revolvers. Something an engraver (same one?) seemed comfortable with, or perhaps was a pattern developed by one engraver and then followed by others doing the cutting in a shop.

The gold inlay work is very nicely done.

Thanks for the expertise - I'm a babe in the woods when it comes to engraving etc. The depth of experience and knowledge here on the forum is awesome...

 

[swagmeister]

Have you taken the stocks off to see if there is any engraver's initials or name on the frames?
In today's over inflated prices world, a pair of revolvers like that or even one of them would bring big $$$$ I think. As they say, they are only worth what someone is willing to pay for them.
Beautiful guns. Thanks for posting. I would have to keep at least one of them.

 

[mturnerb]

Have you taken the stocks off to see if there is any engraver's initials or name on the frames?
In today's over inflated prices world, a pair of revolvers like that or even one of them would bring big $$$$ I think. As they say, they are only worth what someone is willing to pay for them.
Beautiful guns. Thanks for posting. I would have to keep at least one of them.

Here's one - seems to validate the "R.E.I." origin?? (marking RE)

 

[Doc44]

The stampings on the grip frame were made at the factory and are typical for a revolver made in the early 70s.

Bill

 

[RKmesa]

I have a pair of model 60's with original boxes, but the SN's are not that close (R6841 and R9124). Beautiful stainless with ornate engraving, and matching gold eagles. I've been told that some of the guns from this collection were engraved by Alvin White but don't know if this pair is among them.

Does the pair have more value than individually?

Those are very nicely engraved Model 60s. I like them very much.

You have received great input from some of the engraving experts of the forum. Doc44, KSK both have wonderful collections of engraved S&Ws and 2152hq, a Master Engraver himself, is very connected to the engraving world. I always love any comments or insights that these three give when they chime in on my engraved revolvers.

As noted in one of your other posts, I have a Model 19 that was engraved in a similar pattern and probably in the same shop or by the same engraver as the two above...





No distinguishing engraver marks on my Model 19 and it does not look like there are any on your gun. Based on the link in KSK's post, I would lean towards the guns being engraved at REI by Hiroo Sugaya. My experience is that Ogawa (referenced by 2152hq above) usually marked his guns with his name.

As to value - I think $2.5K-$4.5K each depending on how they are sold, and like Doc44 said, perhaps they would yield a higher price if sold separately rather than as a pair.

Thank you for sharing!

 

[mturnerb]

I was able to reach out to Roger Bleile, who is mentioned in the article as the source of information on the similar one in the link mentioned above.

He confirms these were done by Hiroo Sugaya at REI.

Thanks for the expert input!