one shot, two holes

[fly rodder]

I was at the range yesterday when sometime odd happened. A person had been given a box of 38 special reloads. The label indicated they were 148 grain wadcutters (mounted flush)over 4.3 grains of Unique.

A new target was set at 10 yards. The first shot was an obvious squib - tiny report, no hole in the target. A range rod was used to drive out the bullet. A second shot was fired. It sounded normal, but made two perfect full caliber holes in the new target. One hole roughly 1/4 inch under the other. How can that happen?

 

[fly rodder]

I was at the range yesterday when sometime odd happened. A person had been given a box of 38 special reloads. The label indicated they were 148 grain wadcutters (mounted flush)over 4.3 grains of Unique.

A new target was set at 10 yards. The first shot was an obvious squib - tiny report, no hole in the target. A range rod was used to drive out the bullet. A second shot was fired. It sounded normal, but made two perfect full caliber holes in the new target. One hole roughly 1/4 inch under the other. How can that happen?

 

[johngalt]

If the bullets were HBWC, the skirt may have been blown off the base. This can happen if the load is too hot, and 4.3 gr Unique sounds like a hot load for a WC.

 

[Joni_Lynn]

If these were the hollow base full wadcutter design then either the bullet separated or part of the first bullet didn't get removed from the barrel.
Using too much powder with this kind of bullet can cause the top of the bullet to part company with the skirt of the same bullet which may or may not then leave the barrel.
Never shoot someone else's reloads.

 

[Dale53]

I know of two 1911 platform .38 Specials (very nice autos) that lost barrels from this cause. A skirt was left in the barrel and the following shot bulged the barrel (in both cases).

I have shot THOUSANDS of these loads but I was ALWAYS careful to use low end target loads (factory HBWC are at about the 770 fps level and that is not a bad place to be).

Solid base cast wadcutters can be driven, safely, at full velocity but NOT hollow base wadcutters.

Dale53

 

[Spotteddog]

Boy!
There really are smart people on this Forum!
Great resource your continuing Lee!

 

[Skip Sackett]

One other possibility is that the removal rod pushed only part of the bullet out of the barrel. Like what Joni said only in reverse. Full bullet stuck, rod inserted, center of bullet removed, skirt left.

Just a thought.

FWIW

 

[hoppes-no9]

Shooting somebody else's reloads??? Unwise.

Shooting a second round after the first one was a squib?!!?!?!? QUITE unwise.

 

[fly rodder]

thanks for all the help. I was standing behind the person who shot the first two shots. I did not witness other rounds, but the people who continued shooting these loads told me that at least two additional shots produced double holes.

I believe theses were hollow base wadcutters. 4.3 grains under a 148 should not have been a very hot load, but apparently the skirt must have separated. Thanks again for all the help.

 

[Guest]

Hollow base wadcutters at general made from almost pure lead because they a "formed" in a kind of punch press. And because of this very soft material they shouldn't be loaded even "warm" let alone "hot".

I just checked and the Hornady 7th Edition says the 3.5 grains of Unique will produce 750fps and is considered to be a max load for this bullet. So, I would say that 4.3 grains is pretty warm and definitely <span class="ev_code_RED">TOO</span> warm for this bullet design. Personally, I don't like Unique for Target loads to begin with and I'd say you've just given me more reason not to use it.

You've also explained another of the reasons why I don't shoot reloads built by other people. At the very least this shooter should have done a bit of research into just what these reloads were. I have several reloading manuals and yet the very first one I picked up said these were loaded 'Over Maximum' and I would have said "Thanks but No Thanks"! It always makes me wonder just why someone would be giving away ammo??? I'm guessing the "loader" had already had trouble and was too cheap to correct his mistakes and figured he could give away his troubles. BTW when the first round turned out to be a 'squib' I would have walked away from the box right then - where did "that" powder charge go???

You've asked for an explanation and I think you've gotten it.

 

[jrplourde]

I would check further to insure that the barrel did in fact not develop a bulge.

Bob

 

[TSQUARED]

If a 38 Special semi auto cannot function with either 2.8 gr. Bulsye or 3.2 gr. W-231 behind the 148 gr. LHBWC then you have a gun problem. The above loads have been used by bullseye pistol shooters for many years. One exceeds them at ones own risk.

 

[wheelgun1958]

Hollow base wadcutters at general made from almost pure lead because they a "formed" in a kind of punch press. And because of this very soft material they shouldn't be loaded even "warm" let alone "hot".

The very purpose of the HBWC is allowing the bullet to obuterate at low pressure/velocity.

 

[BUFF]

Originally posted by TSQUARED:

"If a 38 Special semi auto cannot function with either 2.8 gr. Bulsye or 3.2 gr. W-231 behind the 148 gr. LHBWC then you have a gun problem."

Not necessarily. I have seen a few S&W Model 52's and a Colt 1911 .38 wadcutter that needed a bit more powder to function reliably. My oldest M-52-2, the only one I shot a lot, needs 3.0 gr. Bullseye with either the Speer or Hornaday 148 gr. HBWC to cycle reliably. Mine's not the only one.

If I had to go much hotter, though, I would look at the gun kinda squinty-eyed.

 

[44forever]

Handloads are like underware, be careful who you swap with.

 

[semperfi71]

A soft lead wadcutter, CRIMPED, will hold the bullet long enough to allow the charge to blow through the hollow-base and forward through the bullet completely. You will essentially have a "lead barrel" left inside the bore. You will not hear any difference in the report nor the recoil.

I know this for a fact. The next bullet into the bore not only bulged it, it also cracked the barrel.

 

[Spotteddog]

Thank you 71!
Yours was the one I was waiting for!
Watch closely for this!!!!
The only give away, is less recoil when it happens. And there's precious little recoil in a full wad, out of a full frame target gun to indicate what's just happened?

 

[Guest]

I have always used a fairly heavy roll crimp with all of my HBWC loadings(actually for all my WC loadings in fact) because I have found that they feed better and are more easily inserted into a revolver cylinder when using Speedloaders; which I have done for many years.

When I began reloading I took a look at what the Factories were using for a crimp on the ammo that I had been doing my best with. Even the stuff I was 'issued' in the Military for the Model 52 I was shooting in those days had used a heavy Roll Crimp and that ammo put a whole lot of holes in the "X" ring as long as I did my part.

I also found that a loading of 2.5 to no more than 3.5 grains of either Bullseye or Winchester 231 powder managed to work extremely well and I never found any blown skirts.