Only a defensive weapon

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ProgressiveTruth

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Hi guys, I'm back. Had death in the family, so had to take care of that. I hope I did not miss anything important.

I was at a gun store and was looking for new additions. I was told that my 640-1 was not a range gun but was built for one thing, defense. It is not going to change me going to the range, but is it true?

Courage is not when you take a life, but when to spare one. Kimberly
 
Kimberly-

That just means that it is a compact defense gun on a small frame, meant for concealment and ease of carrying. It is not meant for a lot of target shooting, but you can certainly occasionally practice with it.

Target guns for frequent range use are larger and are built to withstand frequent firing. They are also easier to shoot, as the weight limits recoil effect and the longer sight radius makes a precise sight picture easier.

Your signature line baffles me. It is certainly courageous to take a life, when warranted. You're probably risking your own life in doing so! That line sounds like some liberal "feel good" fluff.
 
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I enjoy shooting my 640, and to date have shot nothing but paper targets, steel spinners, and the occasional opossum. None of these were presenting a threat, so I suppose the guy at the store is wrong. They can be used for more than just one thing.
 
ProgressiveTruth said:
I was at a gun store and was looking for new additions. I was told that my 640-1 was not a range gun but was built for one thing, defense. It is not going to change me going to the range, but is it true?
Click to expand...

Well, I have a dirty little secret to tell you about guns--they were all originally designed and made to project small chunks of metal at great speed into a human. (Or chunks of stone if you want to go really old school.)

These days, the historical lineage of guns is largely forgotten and the fabricated differences between range/defense/hunting guns are just that--fabricated. People will often delineate between purportedly "hunting guns" and "assault weapons" for example, when a typical modern hunting gun is technologically nothing more than a war gun from a previous era.

So, take that 640 to the range and enjoy it! Steel framed .38 specials are downright pleasant to practice with.
 
What was their purpose in telling you it is a defense gun? Were they trying to convince you that you shouldn't shoot it at a range?

Yes, that particular gun was designed for self defense. This gun was designed to be a range tool:
target-model.jpg


Both are good at what they were designed for, but both can be used for the other application.

Now, I teach self-defense. You are the weapon, the object is just a tool.
 
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True enough that a 640 is not a 'range gun'. It was not designed for competitive target shooting.

It doesn't have target sights.

It is designed to be comfortably portable.

It is designed for very short range use, not 50 foot bullseye competition.

Nevertheless, you can and should shoot it a lot at the range.

You won't shoot it enough in your life to wear it out unless you're on an Olympic pistol team.

If you can afford the amount of ammo it would take to wear it out, you can afford to replace it in the unlikely event you actually manage to wear it out. You would also become a much more accomplished shooter than 99% of us.

Just my opinion, of course.
 
"Yours is only good...."

"Yours is only good for this......You need one of these babies!"

This sounds very much like somebody that wants to sell something. If you had a gun better suited for range, he would tell you it was no good for carry you need one of these for defense.

Now, that said. I bought a short barrel .38 for home defense. What I didn't realize is that I enjoyed shooting it at the range so much. I hated to get rid of the gun (it , was a beautiful model 10) ended up trading it for a 6" 686. If I can afford another gun I would get another model 10 and I would also like a carry pistol, just in case I start to carry. Probably a J frame or a small semi auto.

Under 'ideal conditions' I would have kept the model 10, bought my 686 and saved up for a J frame.


PS Condolences on the loss in your family
 
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Depends on context in which the remark was made. For example, my SW Bodyguard 380 is definitely more of a conceal carry gun than a range gun. However, I regularly shoot my BG at the range at targets ranges from 3 yds to 10 yds (mostly at 7 yds). The gun is small and snappy much like your 640. I doubt the guy meant that you shouldn't take it to the range but rather that there are other guns that are easier to shoot accurately at longer distances.

I have other guns but if I'm only wanting to shoot as accurately as possible at longer distances I go with my full size, .22 Hi-Standard. Heavier gun, with very little recoil, good sights, and light, short trigger pull. These latter things make it a good range gun but not so good conceal carry gun.
 
Waywatcher said:
Well, I have a dirty little secret to tell you about guns--they were all originally designed and made to project small chunks of metal at great speed into a human. (Or chunks of stone if you want to go really old school.)

These days, the historical lineage of guns is largely forgotten and the fabricated differences between range/defense/hunting guns are just that--fabricated. People will often delineate between purportedly "hunting guns" and "assault weapons" for example, when a typical modern hunting gun is technologically nothing more than a war gun from a previous era.

So, take that 640 to the range and enjoy it! Steel framed .38 specials are downright pleasant to practice with.
Click to expand...
Thank you kind sir. This was good learning.
 
rwsmith said:
"Yours is only good for this......You need one of these babies!"

This sounds very much like somebody that wants to sell something. If you had a gun better suited for range, he would tell you it was no good for carry you need one of these for defense.

Now, that said. I bought a short barrel .38 for home defense. What I didn't realize is that I enjoyed shooting it at the range so much. I hated to get rid of the gun (it , was a beautiful model 10) ended up trading it for a 6" 686. If I can afford another gun I would get another model 10 and I would also like a carry pistol, just in case I start to carry. Probably a J frame or a small semi auto.

Under 'ideal conditions' I would have kept the model 10, bought my 686 and saved up for a J frame.


PS Condolences on the loss in your family
Click to expand...
Thank you.
 
Hodgin said:
Depends on context in which the remark was made. For example, my SW Bodyguard 380 is definitely more of a conceal carry gun than a range gun. However, I regularly shoot my BG at the range at targets ranges from 3 yds to 10 yds (mostly at 7 yds). The gun is small and snappy much like your 640. I doubt the guy meant that you shouldn't take it to the range but rather that there are other guns that are easier to shoot accurately at longer distances.

I have other guns but if I'm only wanting to shoot as accurately as possible at longer distances I go with my full size, .22 Hi-Standard. Heavier gun, with very little recoil, good sights, and light, short trigger pull. These latter things make it a good range gun but not so good conceal carry gun.
Click to expand...
Ok, so the Ruger fits that discription. Heavier, bigger, adjustable sights...yea, I understand now.
 
ProgressiveTruth said:
I was at a gun store and was looking for new additions. I was told that my 640-1 was not a range gun but was built for one thing, defense. It is not going to change me going to the range, but is it true?
Click to expand...
What you got was a SUBJECTIVE opinion, based on somebody ELSE'S criteria.

  1. It's certainly not something most people would use for NRA Conventional Pistol competition. IDPA is another story altogether.
  2. With hot loads, it's probably not going to be a lot of fun to shoot, depending upon the grips. With 148gr. wadcutter mid-range loads, it's not going to be much less pleasant than anything else.
My 36-"no dash" is fine to shoot regularly with my target handloads. It isn't THAT bad with the Federal "FBI" load. Even 130gr. FMJs wouldn't be uncomfortable.

I don't know about the gun stores where you are, but around here target wadcutter loads are few and far between. If you don't reload, and can't get anything but hot defense loads, no it won't be fun to shoot if you don't LIKE heavy recoil.

I don't see any obvious reason why you shouldn't buy it and shoot it as much as you want.
 
So my 9.5" barrel Super Redhawk in .44 mag is not a defensive weapon????
Who decides these things?
Is there some kind of national authority that passes on questions such as this?
Does one submit a particular weapon for review and classification?
Can one appeal a classification?
Inquiring minds want to know
 
But how are you going to get accurate and confident with your carry weapon unless you practice with it at the range?

Seems silly to me to make a distinction like that.

I have no problems shooting my 640 at the range, and in IDPA and carrying it. All good IMO.
 
Rule 1: Never listen to gun store commandos

Rule 2: You better catch up on the Thread Drift thread.......
 
CAJUNLAWYER said:
So my 9.5" barrel Super Redhawk in .44 mag is not a defensive weapon????
Who decides these things?
Is there some kind of national authority that passes on questions such as this?
Does one submit a particular weapon for review and classification?
Can one appeal a classification?
Inquiring minds want to know
Click to expand...

As I stated in my post, it all depends on what he meant by "defensive." For the gun shop man's statement to make any sense I believe he really meant conceal carry. Obviously any gun that shoots can be used on the range as well as defensively or offensively.
Your Redhawk can definitely be used defensively but I doubt many people conceal carry this style handgun. I have a feeling the gun shop man was using defensive instead of the more accurate conceal carry when he described the 640 as a defensive gun.
 
There are always roles for which any given item will be better suited. Yes, that .38 snubby would be consider MORE suited for personal defense than for a pleasant period of time at the range. Yes, my Dan Wesson .22 or my K38 would be MORE FUN at the range. I can slaughter a lot of pop cans, paper plates, and other targets with them and have a good time.

That said, similar to the other posters, you do need to practice with that snubby to be comfortable, confident, and competent with it. If you enjoy that time, and slaughter pop cans, paper plates and the like - that's a range gun, in addition to the primary role for which it is suited. If you want to buy something else more to pleasure shooting, and think you will enjoy that format more for that use, by all means do. However, don't let some jerk trying to sell something to you define YOUR use for YOU, based on criteria that may not apply to you.

It's kind of like shopping for a car. if you need to transport 3 kids and a big dog on a regular basis, you are going to have different needs than if you have no kids and are allergic to dogs, but love to compete in rallies.
 
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