Operation DOWNFALL - the invasion that was never launched.

[cmort666]

Even more shocking is that this information has not been made public through the media. Many thanks to the OP for the education.

It has. Just not in the "mainstream" media anymore. This kind of thing is common fare on the cable channels.

The problem is that the truth doesn't fit the "It's America's fault!" meme pushed by the hard left, and parroted by their low IQ pawns in the commercial media.

 

[cmort666]

I once read that during the last year of the war, the Japanese war machine was responsible for 10,000 deaths per week. Not just soldiers, but thousands of civilians murdered and laborers worked to death across China, Korea, the Philippines and the Pacific islands. I've never heard of anyone in Seattle lighting a candle for them.

As I recall, the Japanese simply CONFISCATED the 1944 rice harvest in Vietnam.

Find a copy of a book titled The Rape of Nanking. Don't let your children see it.

You know you're scum when NAZIs are shocked by your behavior.

If you REALLY want to read something interesting, read one or more of the several books about Unit 731 and their human vivisection activities on civilians and Allied POWs.

 

[Rangerpat]

Years ago I had a t-shirt with a picture of a mushroom cloud and the words: "Made in America, tested in Japan."

 

[Toyman]

My father in law was in Coast Guard ROTC at University of Iowa pre WW2 ended up as a gunner officer on LST went through several invasion in south Pacific and did make it to Japan after surrender.
This is photo of dedication of his LST and a drawing I found after he died.
As aside note with the Olympics going on he had won the heavy weight spot for the 1940 Olympics but games were cancelled due to WW 2.

 

[george minze]

Fascinating thread, I was stationed at Iwakuni in 56 . We had a few senior non-com that had been in during WW2. Two of them had been and still were enlisted grade pilots...I know Marine pilots are officers..That was the accepted way. However there were more Master Sgt. pilots than most know of...A hold over due to the Korean War. Seeing and being around the Japanese in the late 50's it was hard to believe how ferocious they were during the war. They seemed to have very good manners and were very courteous to others.Yet our vets from the war told stories that made you wonder...We even had a few Marines that married Japanese women and stayed in country. The Marine command discouraged such behavior, but I guess where there is a will there is a way. We were discouraged to attempt to travel to Hiroshima on leave even though it was very close to Iwakuni. The air space in and over, and around Hiroshima was a no fly zone for US aircraft. However we did travel around the Islands un-molested and our money was appreciated by the shop owners and service suppliers. I guess you never really know what to expect from past enemies..The Japanese seemed to be pretty good ex enemies considering their nature during the war..Sure beat being in Korea in the 50's..

 

[Hapworth]

Another excellent essay from Paladin -- thank you.

I was familiar -- though not in this depth -- with the Allied plans for the invasion of Japan from reading author, professor and WWII veteran Paul Fussell's also excellent essay, "Thank God for the Atomic Bomb".

Required reading for those interested in the subject, linked here: http://croker.harpethhall.org/Must Know/History/AtomBombFussell.pdf

 

[PALADIN85020]

Another excellent essay from Paladin -- thank you.

I was familiar -- though not in this depth -- with the Allied plans for the invasion of Japan from reading author, professor and WWII veteran Paul Fussell's also excellent essay, "Thank God for the Atomic Bomb".

Required reading for those interested in the subject, linked here: http://croker.harpethhall.org/Must Know/History/AtomBombFussell.pdf

This is an incredibly astute essay by Mr. Fussell - a man who knew the war and the unspeakable things in it that were brought to abrupt termination by the use of the bomb. Those who criticize Truman's decision from the vantage point of their comfortable post-war easy chairs are not qualified to pontificate. Ask the grunts, the infantrymen in the WWII Pacific theater what THEY thought at the time. It is THEIR opinions, and theirs only, that should be respected and given trumping value.

John

 

[gaucho1]

Although the destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were almost
instantaneous, the eventual result of an invasion would have been an
comprehensive and thorough elimination of any and all aspects of a
civilized society that could in any way support armed resistance.

I agree that our first duty was to diminish or eliminate casualties to
our troops.

I also think that a long and almost genocidal campaign to destroy armed
resistance would have changed the quality of our country. The men who
fought in the Pacific battles could attest to that.

It had to be done, but at an untold price.

Ultimately the result of using two A bombs was the most compassionate
and morally justified decision.

It surprises me that those who demonize this choice do not understand the alternative.

Thank You for sharing this Paladin.

 

[cmort666]

It surprises me that those who demonize this choice do not understand the alternative.

It shouldn't. They don't WANT to understand the alternative.
Instead, they want to posit an imaginary alternative in which the murderers of millions of innocent civilians and hundreds of thousands of service members and POWs would be treated like so many juvenile delinquents, caught stealing apples from a pushcart.

For them, in the "Monty Python" argot, "Society's to blame!"

 

[the ringo kid]

Every year in early August, there are gathering of people in major cities around the world to "protest" the use of atomic bomb by US against the Imperial Japan during WW2. What these mostly young, impressionable, misguided and naive souls fail to see is the atomic bomb save millions of not just American but also Japanese lives. President Truman's decision to use the bomb is correct and withstood the judgement of history.

Yes, 2 bombs killed hundred thousands in a few days,however, the firebombing of Tokyo killed eighty thousand in one night, and other cities has also been bombed for months, blockade is working, but the Joint Chiefs estimate the Japanese won't be completely subdue well into 1948 even if there are no major set back.

A number of years ago, one newspaper in UK reported a grade school student came home in tears, telling her grandfather, a RAF bomber crew in WW2, words to the effect of, history teacher said those fly bombing missions against Nazi Germany are nothing but murderer of innocent civilian.

In some academic circle, revising and twisting historical fact to generated publicity for oneself or advancing an agenda are rather common, without realize or care the damaged they've caused.

There was a fairly recent uproar about the firebombing of Dresden. Shame it HAD to be done--but it had to be done. I read where someone said that "Bomber Harris" SHOULD have been tries as a war criminal. Anyway, part of that uproar is the person making the post I read--said Dresden had no AA defenses--which was pure bunk. They had several Army and Luftwaffe AA Battalions scattered throughout and around the City with an appx force of military personnel being around 50,000. To them, I guess 50,000 soldiers aint much of a force--to me--its a major formation.

 

[LL617]

I was just thinking about Truman's decision to drop the bomb Saturday. That decision saved at least a 1,000,000 American lives and meant that a strong America was able to save a shattered Western Europe from Soviet domination.

It probably also meant that Japan survived as something more than a burnt-over, empty land whose population had been wiped out.

The decision was, on a massive scale, the same sort of decision that a policeman may face: take a life to save lives.

I'm glad Truman acted as he did; just as I am thankful for the brave men and women who put on the policeman's, sheriff's, or military uniform today.

 

[mg357]

My Grandpa PFC Charles W. George Jr. US Army served in the pacific theater during the war he fought in the battle of Leyte Gulf and served in japan on occupation duty had we invaded Japan I may not have been born. I a Glad that we dropped the A Bombs.

 

[cmort666]

I was just thinking about Truman's decision to drop the bomb Saturday. That decision saved at least a 1,000,000 American lives and meant that a strong America was able to save a shattered Western Europe from Soviet domination.

It's debatable whether it actually saved that many American LIVES. It probably prevented that many American CASUALTIES, killed, wounded, captured AND missing.

There's NO doubt that it saved MORE Japanese lives than that. The Japanese were already starving. With the destruction by aerial bombing of the coal ferries the previous year, by 1946 they were beginning to freeze as well. A refusal of unconditional surrender would inevitably have led to more atomic bombings, large scale use of chemical weapons, and multiple invasions, by the United States AND the Soviet Union.

Without the bombs, Japan would have made "Soylent Green" look like "Barney and Friends".

 

[cmort666]

There was a fairly recent uproar about the firebombing of Dresden. Shame it HAD to be done--but it had to be done.

Dresden didn't HAVE to be bombed, but by that time there was really no reason NOT to that didn't TOTALLY gloss over the conduct of the Germans throughout the war, and indeed prior to it, in Spain.

I'm simply nauseated by the aberrant "thought" processes which lead a certain class of people to posit ANY reason to treat the Germans OR the Japanese with kid gloves.

Somehow, I doubt that very many Germans cried very many tears over Guernica, Warsaw, Rotterdam, Coventry or Stalingrad.

It's all about a revulsion for consequences and a pathological need to portray the victimizers as the victims.

 

[kwselke]

This is from my father's Commanding Officer's diary.


August 9, 1945

The news that Russia declared war on Japan came early this morning. Sleep was impossible after that, and all listened to the radio beamed throughout the ship by the PA. In addition, we learned that the Americans dropped the atomic bomb. No details were released. It was a terse statement. I do not believe the men care about the deaths. Our concern - will it help bring an end to the war? The officers and men had little comment! While not daily, the Third fleet launches 1000-plane raids frequently with fire and demolition bombs. B-29s make their daily shuttle runs over the southern Japanese cities. No movie tonight because of a broken projector but there was little thought as the radio crackled most of the early evening with more details. Played bridge and wrote letters. A storm due this afternoon is now brewing. Rather loud thunder rumbles in the distance while sharp lightening fills the sky as the rain falls.

August 10, 1945

From the States via radio comes the word of Japan’s imminent capitulation. Here all personnel went wild! But returning to the events of the day - following breakfast I took the boat to Captain Peterson’s LC(FF) just getting underway to take on water. I returned to Yolo after stopping at operations and the repair ship; nothing new in either place. With the latest on the war the thought of its pursuit has ended. The only concern is PEACE and when do we go home?

Lunch over, I pressed on with some reading and ship’s business. After dinner most officers gathered in the wardroom to hear the latest news. Just as darkness fell, throughout the anchorage a spont¬aneous demonstration lasting two hours began. It was a sight that only those present could understand. Just about every ship turned on all lights, including the searchlights that weaved across the low hanging clouds covering the anchorage. Coordinated with the ships’ lights was the most amazing display of pyrotechnics--star-shells, flares, very pistols, all in blues, yellows, greens, reds and whites one can imagine. The sky was a mass of color that looked like a Christmas tree. Each ship’s hoses sprayed streams of water into the air while multi-colored lights appeared on yardarms. Ships “dressed ship” with every light aboard. Sirens, whistles, bugle notes, loud speakers - all joined in a crescendo of sound and color. Throughout the demonstration, star shells burst in the air sending their shower of color over all.

In spite of repeated denials that there was no official word, the demonstrations continued and SOPA finally gave all ships permission to issue “pyrotechnics as needed for the display”. With rain showers and the diminishing supply of pyrotechnics, the ardor dimmed and one by one the lights went out. Occasionally a solitary searchlight probes the sky, while several ships display their multi-colored convoy lights. Aboard, the men gathered in small groups along the rail to observe the unusual celebration. Cries to break out the beer were heard and despite the many entreaties I held firm - only a few cases were left. Finally the men went below where they talked for the better part of the night.

 

[george minze]

It is so easy to criticize now over something that happened over 50 years ago. Ultimately the use of A bombs probably saved both American and Japanese lives. As stated the lives of us and the Japanese that would have been lost was atrocious. Only God knows how many lives were saved. We seem to be in a time in history when those who never had to serve give opinion's that counter the assessable knowledge of the times....I say Give em Hell Harry did the only thing that was prudent and saved both American and Japanese lives. The one thing that was an amazement at the time was the fact that we had a president that as vice president had been kept out of the loop. Goes to show you people arise to the occasion more than expected. That decision to use the A bombs saved untold lives on both sides. May we always arise to make those decisions that are hard to make but devastating if not made.

 

[Stevens]

[My Dad wore the same Patch as the one on the monument, You can see it on his sleeve in the picture The right hand patch is of the Hawaii National Guard where he served after the war. He was born and grew up in Lahaina, Maui but was a senior in high school in Honolulu when Pearl harbor was attacked. He joined the army right after H.S. graduation. He served in Philippines and then in Japan after the war I believe on Okinawa. He passed away in 2003.
RIP Dad, and all the other brave warriors who served this country.
My Father in Law was on a transport from California (where he did training as a Higgins Boat driver) to Hawaii when the bomb was dropped on Hiroshima so he was spared the worst of it.
Steve W

[/QUOTE]

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

The "Second Thoughts" about the air offensive against the Axis started even before the war ended. In the UK there were several high-ranking clergymen who questioned it both on humanitarian grounds and asked whether it was lowering us to their level. After the war Bomber Harris was bitter that his men (Bomber Command had 55% casualties) did not receive a campaign ribbon.

 

[Old 44 Guy]

Many Thanks Paladin, Great story . I am constantly amazed by Monday Morning Quarter Backs so called studying of WW2. Hell, they weren't even born yet but are experts on the war. Because they studied it in some college. If the truth be known it's a damn good thing we dropped the bomb. It actually saved a lot of lives & in the long run saved a nation....... Japan.

 

[PALADIN85020]

[My Dad wore the same Patch as the one on the monument, You can see it on his sleeve in the picture The right hand patch is of the Hawaii National Guard where he served after the war. He was born and grew up in Lahaina, Maui but was a senior in high school in Honolulu when Pearl harbor was attacked. He joined the army right after H.S. graduation. He served in Philippines and then in Japan after the war I believe on Okinawa. He passed away in 2003.
RIP Dad, and all the other brave warriors who served this country.
My Father in Law was on a transport from California (where he did training as a Higgins Boat driver) to Hawaii when the bomb was dropped on Hiroshima so he was spared the worst of it.
Steve W

Your dad, having served in the 158th Regimental Combat Team, was in a crack outfit. I'm sure you saw the quote from Gen. MacArthur about them.

Here is the modern-day patch of the 158th Infantry Regiment, the Bushmasters, which I wore proudly during my service with them. The epaulet shield of the unit bears a Gila monster, with the word "Cuidado" which in Spanish means "Careful," "Caution," or "Look out!"

Students of military firearms may be familiar with the "Bushmaster" Model 1903 Springfields, which were cut down to carbine length, specially authorized by the Army for the 158th during the war. They are valued rifles when found today.

More on the 158th Bushmasters can be found here:

http://www.bushmasters158.com/

John