Optics opinion.

[TheJake75]

A topic that I'm sure has been beaten to death on this forum no doubt but I figured I'd ask the folks who are familiar with my AR rather than the LGS trying to separate as much coin from me as they can. I've got it down to 2 options for my Sport:
1. Primary Arms microdot with a 3x long eye relief magnifier for a total cost of $340..
2. EoTech XPS2-2 with the BDC for about $450.

I like the versatility of the PA option but I'm not sure if that will make it too bulky and top heavy. With the EoTech option it breaks the bank and leaves nothing left for a magnifier.

Thoughts?

 

[JaPes]

EoTech.

I've had a PA M3 clone and a 3X magnifier and it turned a light rifle into a top heavy pig.

Better to spend your money on the high end EoTech than a PA microdot & magnifier.

 

[cyphertext]

Personal opinion, but if you need a magnifier with the red dot, then you really needed a scope in the first place.

 

[TheJake75]

The reason I don't want to go scope is that I don't want to be locked in to any one format and I want to be able to use my BUIS. Going red dot/ holographic gives me some flexibility.

 

[jagular]

Have you considered an ACOG style fixed power red dot/scope? I have the old PA generation on my 15-22 and it has been solid. Primary arms has a new generation out at your price range. I think the PA one is 3.5x. It's great at 25-100 yards.

 

[Dirty*Harry]

Look into Lucid. They are priced right and a quality optic for the money. They make a 2X magnifier that screws onto the red dot. I have a Gen 3 HD7 and I very happy with it.

 

[cyphertext]

The reason I don't want to go scope is that I don't want to be locked in to any one format and I want to be able to use my BUIS. Going red dot/ holographic gives me some flexibility.

You can get a varied power scope, 1x4 power, still shoots like a red dot on 1x, cranks up with magnification. Quick release mounts lets you go to BUIS if it fails... after all, they are "back up" sights.

 

[JaPes]

If you want to shoot for distance and bullseye accuracy = scope.

If you want to shoot for distances up to 100 yards and have quick sight acquisition for combat accuracy = dot.

If you want a little of both, a fixed power ACOG.

You really can't cheat with optics. If you have the scratch to buy an EoTech or Aimpoint, do not downgrade to a PRimary Arms, Lucid, Votrext, or any other budget optic. Buy the EoTech. Wait a while and buy a scope with a good QD mount. Best of both worlds right there.

 

[sgtsandman]

Another option to consider is mounting your iron sights on a 45 degree offset if you can't use them through whatever optic you choose. That way, with a slight tilt of the rifle, You are in business for the up close and dirty shots.

With a red dot, you can use your irons through it, just flip down the rear sight when not in use. With a scope, you are pretty much stuck with either flipping or removing the scope or doing what I mentioned above. It really comes down to personal preference.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

The reason I don't want to go scope is that I don't want to be locked in to any one format and I want to be able to use my BUIS. Going red dot/ holographic gives me some flexibility.

Yes it does provide flexibility. It also provides the shooter with all this stuff in his face and nearly a whopping half pound more weight not including mount and hinged hardware.

When I first saw such setups I thought they looked pretty cool and strongly considered it. I rejected the idea based upon the main purpose of the 1x red dot.

My 1x red dot is for fast target acquisition, both eyes open, unlimited eye relief and field of view, center mass point and click 0-250yds+. So the question became..... How would a bunch of weight and clutter in my face when not in use and limited field of view when I was using it, how would that compliment the main purpose of a 1x red dot? The answer is it would't... at least not for me.

 

[moe smith]

Have you considered an ACOG style fixed power red dot/scope? I have the old PA generation on my 15-22 and it has been solid. Primary arms has a new generation out at your price range. I think the PA one is 3.5x. It's great at 25-100 yards.

Primary Arms Fixed power ACOG style? Have not seen that. Do you have a link? Or are you referring to this.....

https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary-Arms-2-5X-Compact-Scope-PAC2-5X-p/pac2.5x.htm

 

[jagular]

Primary Arms Fixed power ACOG style? Have not seen that. Do you have a link? Or are you referring to this.....



https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary-Arms-2-5X-Compact-Scope-PAC2-5X-p/pac2.5x.htm

Yeah, that's it.

 

[moe smith]

Yeah, that's it.

Ah, Ok, you had me going for a minute. I wuz sayin huh? wah? I just finished an exhausting search a month or two ago for what you described. Thought I may have missed something.

 

[TheJake75]

Thanks guys. I've been conflicted on this subject. I've had people tell me to go scope and I've had people tell me to go red dot w/magnification, etc. Also, perusing the photo thread for answers created more questions. The more I've thought about it I'm really not going to have the opportunity for a lot of real long range shooting so a red dot at 250 yards may do just fine for me.

 

[Maddmax]

That's why they make QD mounts. You can have the best of what you want for what you want range wise. Doesn't take much to get re-zeroed.

 

[batmann]

One optic I have found to work very well for me is the Burris AR 332. It is a fixed 3X with a BDC. The reticle can be changed from black to red to green depending on the background with adjustable brightness levels, but the feature I like the most is the black reticle does not require a battery so no matter the situation, your optic always is ready. I added a Burris QD mount, but it does come with a mount so the cost ($300 range) is very reasonable for a quality optic. I have found that with the 3X, it is still good for CQC, but it does take a little getting used to. It is nice to have those options in a one piece unit as opposed to the extra weight and complexity of swing away units.
I have used this optic for a couple of years and it does retain zero with the QD when removed and remounted and, while the BDC is good for 600 meters, I have not used it beyond 300 and it is accurate, for me, out that far. YMMV.

 

[thecatch8]

Primary Arms Fixed power ACOG style? Have not seen that. Do you have a link? Or are you referring to this.....

https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary-Arms-2-5X-Compact-Scope-PAC2-5X-p/pac2.5x.htm

I think the only true ACOG is made by Trijicon in regards to their fiber optic technology. Not sure what is meant by ACOG style?

 

[cyphertext]

I think the only true ACOG is made by Trijicon in regards to their fiber optic technology. Not sure what is meant by ACOG style?

ACOG style meaning fixed power, ACOG mounts, and range estimation... at least that is my assumption.

 

[thecatch8]

Advanced Combat Optical Gunsight - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Advanced Combat Optical Gunsights (abbreviated ACOG) are a series of telescopic sights manufactured by Trijicon. The ACOG was originally designed to be used on the M16 rifle and M4 carbine, but Trijicon have also developed ACOG accessories for other firearms. Models provide fixed power magnification levels from 1.5× to 6×.[1] ACOG reticles are illuminated at night by an internal phosphor. Some versions have an additional daytime reticle illumination via a passive external fiber optic light pipe."

 

[Maddmax]

If you want to shoot for distance and bullseye accuracy = scope.

If you want to shoot for distances up to 100 yards and have quick sight acquisition for combat accuracy = dot.

If you want a little of both, a fixed power ACOG.

You really can't cheat with optics. If you have the scratch to buy an EoTech or Aimpoint, do not downgrade to a PRimary Arms, Lucid, Votrext, or any other budget optic. Buy the EoTech. Wait a while and buy a scope with a good QD mount. Best of both worlds right there.

I think I just figured out why I have more than a couple MSR's. Too many scopes to choose from and having the right "tool" on hand for the intended job.