Original 45 Schofield Ammunition Manufacture

[Bryan Austin]

What ammunition manufacture developed and manufactured the first 45 Schofield cartridges?

Details would be awesome!

According to Wikipedia Smith & Wesson developed their own 45 Schofield ammunition, but yet there is no evidence of Smith & Wession ever manufacturing or selling any.

We all know the government accepted the revolver in 1875, and the majority of us already know the story behind it. But the question I have is the ammunition. All we know is that Frankford Arsenal manufactured the “Schofield” ammunition for the military contract.

Wikipedia also only notes their information comes from recent sources, all post 2000s…nothing of older pre-1900s information. Wikipedia says that S&W instead developed their own, slightly shorter .45 caliber round, the .45 Schofield, otherwise known as the .45 S&W. So if S&W developed their own, what were the components? This was in regards to the 45 Colt cartridge that they were supposed to be able to use in the revolver in order to be granted the military contract.

Switching over to Wikipedia's Schofield Cartridge page, there is as little information there as there is on the revolver page. Wikipedia does nothing to separate, or even claim there is a difference between the 45 Schofield cartridge and Frankord’s government cartridge.

It is my understanding that the government ammunition for the military Schofields was different from the commercial 45 Schofield ammunition…of which Smith & Wesson never manufactured...but yet they merge the two as one.


1875 - Smith & Wession’s 45 Schofield Cartridge?
1875 - Frankford Arsenal’s 45 Schofield Cartridge?
1875 - Other - Commercial Manufactures 45 Schofield Cartridge?

 

[DWalt]

I don't have any information about commercial manufacture of the .45 S&W/Schofield cartridge. All I have is that Frankford Arsenal got the first ammunition production order on August 20, 1874, for use in both the Colt and S&W revolvers. That was for an inside-primed cartridge with a gilding metal case of 1.10" length, and a 230 grain flat nosed lead bullet. I do have an 1878 FA drawing that shows a 0.502" rim diameter, a 0.479" base diameter, and a 0.478" case mouth diameter. The powder charge shown is 28 grains. The bullet diameter is given as 0.456".

Experimentation at FA to develop an externally primed case began in late 1879, culminating in its adoption on July 3, 1882. Drawings show a case length of 1.11", a rim diameter of 0.524", a base diameter of 0.481", a neck diameter of 0.477", and a bullet diameter of 0.450" (the bullet always had a deep hollow base). The bullet weight and powder charge remained the same as the earlier inside primed cartridge.

The next change to the cartridge occurred on June 13, 1887 when the rim diameter was reduced to 0.513". Tinned brass cases were adopted in late 1890. In 1901-02, the bullet weight was reduced to 225 grains and the powder charge decreased to 26 grains. There were several later changes made including substitution of smokeless powder and increasing the rim diameter, ca. 1908-09. And that is the extent of what information I have.

There is no existing information showing that .45 S&W/Schofield ammunition for military use was ever purchased by the government from outside contractors, only that made at FA.

About the only additional cartridge information I have is that the 1877 UMC catalog makes no mention of it. The 1880 UMC catalog mentions only the availability of .45 S&W (that is how it was listed) primed cases, but the 1882-1905 UMC catalogs list .45 S&W loaded ammunition (250 grain bullets). I have no UMC catalogs later than 1905. That suggests to me that UMC had nothing to do with the cartridge's early development. And if UMC did not, probably no other ammunition manufacturer did either.

 

[glowe]

The Pitman Notes on US Martial Small Arms and Ammunition 1776 - 1933 is a 5 volume set. Volume 2 is Revolvers & Automatic Pistols and contains a very detailed piece on the Schofield revolver and ammunition design dating from 1874. There are several pages of Frankford Arsenal ammunition up to 1901.

 

[Bryan Austin]

I don't have any information about commercial manufacture of the .45 S&W/Schofield cartridge. All I have is that Frankford Arsenal got the first ammunition production order on August 20, 1874, for use in both the Colt and S&W revolvers. That was for an inside-primed cartridge with a gilding metal case of 1.10" length, and a 230 grain flat nosed lead bullet. I do have an 1878 FA drawing that shows a 0.502" rim diameter, a 0.479" base diameter, and a 0.478" case mouth diameter. The powder charge shown is 28 grains. The bullet diameter is given as 0.456".

Experimentation at FA to develop an externally primed case began in late 1879, culminating in its adoption on July 3, 1882. Drawings show a case length of 1.11", a rim diameter of 0.524", a base diameter of 0.481", a neck diameter of 0.477", and a bullet diameter of 0.450" (the bullet always had a deep hollow base). The bullet weight and powder charge remained the same as the earlier inside primed cartridge.

The next change to the cartridge occurred on June 13, 1887 when the rim diameter was reduced to 0.513". Tinned brass cases were adopted in late 1890. In 1901-02, the bullet weight was reduced to 225 grains and the powder charge decreased to 26 grains. There were several later changes made including substitution of smokeless powder and increasing the rim diameter, ca. 1908-09. And that is the extent of what information I have.

There is no existing information showing that .45 S&W/Schofield ammunition for military use was ever purchased by the government from outside contractors, only that made at FA.

About the only additional cartridge information I have is that the 1877 UMC catalog makes no mention of it. The 1880 UMC catalog mentions only the availability of .45 S&W (that is how it was listed) primed cases, but the 1882-1905 UMC catalogs list .45 S&W loaded ammunition (250 grain bullets). I have no UMC catalogs later than 1905. That suggests to me that UMC had nothing to do with the cartridge's early development. And if UMC did not, probably no other ammunition manufacturer did either.

Awesome information THANKS!!

 

[Bryan Austin]

The Pitman Notes on US Martial Small Arms and Ammunition 1776 - 1933 is a 5 volume set. Volume 2 is Revolvers & Automatic Pistols and contains a very detailed piece on the Schofield revolver and ammunition design dating from 1874. There are several pages of Frankford Arsenal ammunition up to 1901.

Thanks but my book buying days are over. If I buy just one volume, my OCD will kill me

Lots of good information on books!