+p ammo

[unclebob]

I have tried to contact S&W tech support, but no answer, so I will ask all the professionals here.
I have a model 36 which I bought new in 1978, serial # j6378xx, my local shops carry only +p ammo in .38
can I use this type of ammo without damage.
Thanks Unclebob

 

[OKFC05]

yes. "Extended use of +P may cause accelerated wear."
Revolver manual is available on S&W website.

 

[Art Doc]

Shooting with Hobie

 

[unclebob]

any brand of ammo and amount of grain??

 

[shouldazagged]

My EDC gun is a no-dash Model 640 .38 Special. It's factory-etched inside the frame, "Tested For +P+". I've encountered a number of people here who have 640's marked the same way, and it appears about 5000 were made, probably as a special order.

I contacted S&W to ask about how many were made and when. That was all I wanted to know. They didn't want to talk about it. Eventually I was told my gun was built in 1970, but also repeatedly told emphatically that +P+ should never be used in any of their handguns.

I beg your pardon? You were the ones who tested and marked those 640's.

I haven't any interest in shooting +P+ ammo in this revolver. I like the old FBI load, and am now trying the standard-pressure Buffalo Bore version. But this experience told me that concern about lawsuits is a major factor and probably has resulted in, shall we say, an abundance of caution...

My only concern about shooting limited amounts of +P in an alloy-framed J would be that the increased recoil wouldn't feel good to my buggered-up hands.

 

[poordevil]

This got me to thinking about the title,+P. If it is even used correctly or if the title is even necessary .

I have Winchester 110 gr +P+ that a test on youtube had the velocity of 948 fps. I have Hornoday Critical Defense 110 gr that the box lists at 1010 fps. It is not even listed as +P on cases or box.

Does the +P handle even have meaning any more?

 

[Steve C]

You can safely shoot any factory +P load out of your steel frame 36 in that it will not blow up your handgun or turn it into junk with a limited number of shots. The added velocity of the ammo and subsequent added recoil will be harder on the gun. To use them once and a while and to carry for self defense will not increase the guns wear excessively.

Once you fire a few +P's in your Chief special its unlikely you would care to shoot many as the added recoil can be brutal, esp with the standard factory stocks. Use standard pressure ammo for practice and if you want more powder load +P for self defense.

Does the +P handle even have meaning any more?

+P has a specific meaning as defined by SAAMI. Any .38 spl load that has a mean pressure of over 17,000 PSI and no greater than 18,500 PSI. 17,000 PSI being the maximum pressure allowed in standard .38 spl loads.

 

[WR Moore]

1. The +P /+P+ ratings were developed over 40 years ago. There's been a lot of developments in powder technology since then.

2. Manufacturers load to a velocity specification within acceptable pressures. They don't (generally, if they want to stay in business) load to the pressure limitations.

3. Given the above, it may be possible for manufacturers to reach velocities at standard pressures that in ye olden dayes required higher than standard pressures.

 

[murphydog]

I believe the issue with +P+ is there is no definition except "higher than +P", therefore the factory will not say literally anything at higher than defined +P pressures are safe.

 

[poordevil]

All the boxes of Winchester 110gr +P+ say it is loaded to Treasury Department standards and is rated to about 23,500 cup

 

[Alk8944]

+P has a specific meaning as defined by SAAMI. Any .38 spl load that has a mean pressure of over 17,000 PSI and no greater than 18,500 PSI. 17,000 PSI being the maximum pressure allowed in standard .38 spl loads.

This information is out-dated as a result of the change in type of pressure measuring equipment. Per current SAAMI publications the Maximum Average Pressure (MAP) permissible with Piezo equipment is:

.38 Special, 17,000 PSI

.38 Special +P, 20,000 PSI

.38 Special +P+. There is no designated standard, nor is this recognized bt SAAMI. All it means is the MAP exceeds the 20,000 PSI +P standard.

Note: The cited 23,500 PSI "Treasury Load" falls in the +P+ category, and is approximately in the range of the old .38-44 load. (Supposedly)

The older pressure standards cited by Stevec, and reported in most loading manuals, are based on the older "crusher" method of pressure measurement.

The current SAAMI Bulletins are now available on-line if you are curious. Simply "Google" SAAMI.