+P in any recent J frame?

[WA Bound]

Greetings...a slightly embarrassing first post.

I've a J frame .38 snubbie, purchased new about 8-10 years ago. Unfortunately, I'm not sure of the exact model - it's sitting in a safe, two states away from me. Based on pictures I've seen online, it looks like a 642 - it's stainless and/or aluminum, with a ~2" barrel, and I know it has no external hammer.

So, the question - is there any J frame fitting the above description, that was not designed to handle +P ammo?

 

[aterry33]

WA, welcome. Open up the revolver cyclinder and the model # will be stamped into the yoke. For example, if it's a 642, the number will be stamped near the serial number.

The original 642 was not +P rated. If it is a 642-1, then it will be a J Magnum frame and rated for +P.

Generally, it is safe to shoot at least a limited number of +P in any Smith & Wesson with a model number stamped in the yoke (which they started doing in 1957). However, there are some notable exceptions, including some of the older aluminum frame revovlers.

Check your gun and post the model number here.

 

[WA Bound]

WA, welcome. Open up the revolver cyclinder and the model # will be stamped into the yoke. For example, if it's a 642, the number will be stamped near the serial number.

Unfortunately, I don't have access to it - it's sitting in a safe, 900 miles north of me.

I was hoping to pick up some ammo online prior to heading up there, and was interested in trying out some of the +P loads I've been reading about here. But given my inability to identify the gun with 100% accuracy until I get there, perhaps standard loads would be wiser for now.

I was crossing my fingers that the answer would be something other than "it depends"...

 

[38-44HD45]

I will shoot +P ammo in any numbered J-frames, though not in large quantities in some of the older aluminum alloy guns. If yours is stainless or stainless/aluminum alloy and looks like a 640 or 642, it will safely handle +P ammo, whether "rated" for it or not. There were not any non-numbered J-frames that looked like a 642. A nickeled Centennial would be bright nickel, and unless you had one of the 37 that were made with an aluminum cylinder, a few rounds of +P wouldn't hurt a pre-42 Centennial. It won't blow up, although, the hotter the ammo, the faster any gun will wear, +P rated or not. I have an old 49-nada that I've put a bunch of very hot +P ammo through, and a little +P+, it is still very tight, and it was well-used when I bought it.

 

[Pisgah]

If I had a 40 or 50 year-old J-frame I'd probably limit my use of +P pretty severely, even though Elmer Keith fired a bunch of .38-44 loads through one with no problems (considerably hotter than today's +P). Also, there is some evidence that today's +P loads are not much, if any, hotter than standard .38 loads of the '50s. But for anything built within the past 20 years or so I would not be too concerned.

By the way, not all J-frames S&W approves for +P have the "magnum" frame. When I bought one of the production-overrun 37-2 revolvers a few years back (the ones that shipped with the factory-bobbed hammer and no internal lock), I both wrote and called S&W and questioned them about +P suitablility. They assured me that, labelled or not, they were fine for +P.

 

[38-44HD45]

Glad Pisgah mentioned Keith and .38-44 loads. Smith and Wesson advertised pre-numbered J-frames as being safe with .38-44 loads way back when. A friend of mine on another forum recently posted copies of the ads there. .38-44 loads were MUCH hotter than today's +P.

The J-frame that Keith was shooting .38-44 loads in back in '59 or '60 was an aluminum alloy framed gun, too. He commented that an all-steel gun would likely be more comfortable with these loads.

 

[Skeeziks]

I have an old 49-nada that I've put a bunch of very hot +P ammo through, and a little +P+, it is still very tight, and it was well-used when I bought it.

Hi, I also have a mod. 49 that was purchased new in '87 and was only shot once, cleaned and put away 'til just recently.
I have a question: what is a 49-nada? What does "nada" stand for?

 

[38-44HD45]

Hi, I also have a mod. 49 that was purchased new in '87 and was only shot once, cleaned and put away 'til just recently.
I have a question: what is a 49-nada? What does "nada" stand for?

Sorry; sometimes I forget that not everyone speaks Spanish in America. Nada = nadadamnthing.

 

[WA Bound]

Well, one mystery cleared up - another appears.

Don't know why I didn't think of this originally, but I emailed the FFL I bought it from - he looked it up in his records, and emailed me some info. It's a 640, which lays to rest any concern about +P's.

But, his note didn't contain the caliber, so I'm not sure if it's a .38 only or .357. He did include the serial #, so I'm guessing a call to S&W on Monday will clear that up.

Thanks for all the feedback.

 

[38-44HD45]

If it's a no-dash 640, it's a .38. 640-1 and up, it's a .357.

 

[WA Bound]

If it's a no-dash 640, it's a .38. 640-1 and up, it's a .357.

S&W confirmed it is .38 only this morning.

RE the dash/no-dash - one thing I've discovered since yesterday, is that the FFL's description states it was sold as a "NYPD finish". It is a matte finish.

Based on other posts I've seen around here, the "NYPD" moniker could be responsible for the .38 only configuration as well, correct? Or were any models sold as such, also "no-dash" 640's?

Serial is CAHxxxx, if that matters. Per S&W, manufactured in 1995, I bought it new in 1996.

And, while the tech I spoke with was careful with his words given that the revolver is not officially rated for it, he left me with no reason to be concerned about shooting +P's though it.

So, in my case - perhaps some good news, some bad news. My hope was for this to be a carry piece for my wife and/or me when we move to WA next year, but the weight concerns me - I think I'd much prefer the 642 in that regard.

However, the good news - I'm guessing the heavier frame 640 will help quite a bit, in determining whether I wish to pick up a 642 or two. If either the wife or me are near our limits of proficiency and/or comfort with +P's in the heavier 640, that would seem to be telling.

Thanks again for all the input - most helpful.

 

[38-44HD45]

640-1s were first made in 1995, but I suspect that no-dash 640s were made into '95, as well. It would be interesting to know if your gun has the longer frame.

SCSW says that all no-dash 640s are "+P rated," but I'd shoot hell out of +Ps in it, even if it didn't.

FWIW, I just gave my son's fiance a 642-1 and a bunch of ammo. She's a tiny, petite girl, and I expect that her carry load of choice will be Speer 135gr. +P Gold Dots, of which I sent a box. I sent her some standard pressure 125gr. Nyclads, just in case, but she's shot with us before, and she handles hot ammo in an old Colt Agent well, so it shouldn't be a problem. In the heavier 640, recoil should be a non-issue with most any .38 ammo.

 

[SaberOne]

If your gun was never fired, then consider a few hundred dry fire trigger actuations while watching TV. This will help soften things up, exercise your fingers, hands and forearm muscles. During commercials you can sight in on wall switch plates or similar, to gain sight pitcher control as you squeeze the trigger. Once you feel the juice, then start out with soft recoil loads for a few sessions. If you build up gradually, your experience will be more pleasant and the results more rewarding. No need to run a marathon so soon after your gun has been on furlough.

 

[WA Bound]

It would be interesting to know if your gun has the longer frame.

I'll have it in hand in a few weeks - I'll report back. However, I'm not familiar with the frame differences...I can certainly do some research on my own, but is there a quick/easy explanation that you can provide?

FWIW, I just gave my son's fiance a 642-1 and a bunch of ammo. She's a tiny, petite girl, and I expect that her carry load of choice will be Speer 135gr. +P Gold Dots, of which I sent a box.

Man...wish I had a father-in-law like you.

Those Speers were on my list of +P's to try out in the 640, I'll be ordering them up in the next couple of days. I've also found a local range that has a 642 for rent - not sure if they allow outside ammo, but I'll save a few for that trip just in case.

I'm hopeful my wife will be fine with the 642; she's not particularly recoil sensitive. The gun she's most familiar with is our Glock 23, which she shoots Cor-Bons out of with no complaint. She even enjoys our 629 with .44 target loads on occasion, but it's a relative pussycat with the 8 3/8" barrel.

Anyway, we've just not invested much time in the snubbie, as we currently live where carry is not an option - and it's not the favorite gun at the range either. It was an impulse buy many years back, and has mostly sat in the safe.

Thanks again!

 

[38-44HD45]

Eeeeeeveryone wishes they had a father-in-law like me! If your wife shoots Cor-Bons out of a Glock 23 with no problems, +P .38s out of the 640 should be pussycats for her. I keep Cor-Bon ammo in my 23s, one of which rides with me most everywhere in my pickup, and subjectively, I think their recoil is sharper and harder than the Speer load is in a steel snubby. And, the Speer snubby load has less recoil than others with less impressive ballistics. (How do dey do dat?) My friend Mas Ayoob keeps the Speer 135s in his backup 442, so that's a good endorsement, too.

RE: J-frame lengths-When Smith started putting .357 in J-frames, in 1995, the original J-frame length wasn't quite long enough for a cylinder that would hold most kinds of .357 loads. The older .38-length frame was long enough for some, but with others, the bullet would have protruded from the front of the chambers in a .38-length cylinder, so a longer cylinder was needed, but the old J-frame wouldn't allow a window big enough for such a cylinder. Therefore, Smith lengthened the frame by a bit to allow a longer cylinder. As far as I know, other than some 37-2s and maybe another special run or two, all the Js since 1995 have had the "magnum length" frame, regardless of caliber, but I could be wrong.