Is it safe to fire .38 Special +P in an early 1969 model 36?
+P in Model 36
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Alk8944
US Veteran
YES, YES, YES!!!!
+P is only slightly (9-11%) higher pressure than SAAMI standard pressure loads.
Read this post and the article article this link will take you to. Interesting, and factual, article about +P Ammunition
+P is only slightly (9-11%) higher pressure than SAAMI standard pressure loads.
Read this post and the article article this link will take you to. Interesting, and factual, article about +P Ammunition
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pantannojack
US Veteran
A good idea for longevity? No. For SD once? Maybe so. I am not a qualified engineer, so ask around some more.
MetalMan
Member
It's been well reported that any S&W stamped with a "model number" is safe for use with +p.
I do agree that one should be judicious in its use though…..
I do agree that one should be judicious in its use though…..
yugolovr
Member
My rule of thumb is practice with standard pressure, but carry +p. I'm not worried about the gun I'm shooting. I'm worried about my wrist. I wouldn't worry about limited +P use
sigp220.45
US Veteran
It won't hurt it. I used to qualify with my Model 36 and +P+ Hydra Shoks. Both the gun and I are fine. Its not really that powerful.
S&W has made it clear that their steel/stainless steel J-frames stamped with a model number are perfectly safe with 38 Special +P ammo. Would I fire +P for all of my practice? Not likely, it's not as punishing as 357 Magnum ammo in a J-frame, but it still recoils more than standard pressure ammo.
Model19man
Member
I wouldn't worry about it in a Model 36. Model 37 +P is for occasional use, not for thousands of rounds of range practice.
I believe the primary problem arising when attempting to grasp the concept and meaning of +P ammunition is the "+" itself. It refers primarily to the increased profits enjoyed by the manufactures of the +P fodder.
As to the "increased" pressures, yes they are increased; but compared to what? I grow weary of displaying all this data, so let me suggest those of you in need of enlightenment gather up the performance data on whatever sort of +P stuff interests you, and compare it to that of the standard ammo before it was emasculated. The picture you will see is standard performance was decreased. Then it was increased back to a level ever so slightly higher than it was before it was decreased-----AND it was given a new name---a name in keeping with it's performance---------and its price-----+P.
So you see, anytime a product is touted as "new", or better yet, "new and improved"----or even better yet, "+P"--------there's a price to pay.
Now, when it comes to "new and improved" guns-----those touted as safe to use with +P, what better way to get you to grab your pocketbook, and run out to the gun store and buy some new guns?
I'm surprised we haven't seen some new and improved powder solvent----specially blended for +P residue. Or have we? I haven't been paying attention.
LORD----have mercy!!
Ralph Tremaine
As to the "increased" pressures, yes they are increased; but compared to what? I grow weary of displaying all this data, so let me suggest those of you in need of enlightenment gather up the performance data on whatever sort of +P stuff interests you, and compare it to that of the standard ammo before it was emasculated. The picture you will see is standard performance was decreased. Then it was increased back to a level ever so slightly higher than it was before it was decreased-----AND it was given a new name---a name in keeping with it's performance---------and its price-----+P.
So you see, anytime a product is touted as "new", or better yet, "new and improved"----or even better yet, "+P"--------there's a price to pay.
Now, when it comes to "new and improved" guns-----those touted as safe to use with +P, what better way to get you to grab your pocketbook, and run out to the gun store and buy some new guns?
I'm surprised we haven't seen some new and improved powder solvent----specially blended for +P residue. Or have we? I haven't been paying attention.
LORD----have mercy!!
Ralph Tremaine
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bmcgilvray
Member
I've shot Winchester Westerm +P 158 grain lead semi-wadcutters in a Baby Chiefs Special made in 1952. It ate it up.
Current lightweight bullet +P .38 Special isn't worth the amount of ink it took to print "+P" on the box. +P .38 Special has never been worth all the timorous dithering that has been devoted to it in internet firearms forums.
Current lightweight bullet +P .38 Special isn't worth the amount of ink it took to print "+P" on the box. +P .38 Special has never been worth all the timorous dithering that has been devoted to it in internet firearms forums.
shil
Member
Just heed the manufacturer's direction and you'll be fine.
shil
Member
Safe? Probably. Wise? Maybe not. +P is over-hyped, I think. Stay with standard pressure and practice. It's about shot placement. +P is not magical, at least out of a snubbie. My humble opinion.
Not true, it's not recommended to shoot +P in a model 12.
It can be a little confusing when it's said that +p is nothing more than what the round USED to be before it was downloaded but also it's said don't shoot much of it or it might be bad on the gun.
If it's bad on the gun then one would think it is a more powerful round.
I practice with standard due to price, recoil and insurance if the second scenario is correct.
If it's bad on the gun then one would think it is a more powerful round.
I practice with standard due to price, recoil and insurance if the second scenario is correct.
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Well...
The official factory recommendation was any model number stamped, 'steel K or N frame in .38 Special or .357 Magnum' was +P approved. This expanded to later steel J frames, and alloy J Magnum frames much later.
You can call that overly cautious (and you'd be correct, especially for earlier steel J frames), but that is the party line.
Alk8944
US Veteran
Not Recommended (by the general shooting public), or a CYA non-recommendation from S&W, does not translate to not safe.!!!!!
If you have a Speer reloading manual #8 refer to what they published as standard pressure loads for .38 Special. When I was much younger, about 50 years younger!!! and a whole lot dumber in that I still believed that all loads published in reloading manuals were SAFE. This is not true. Look specifically at the loads listed for 125 Gr. JHP bullet and DuPont #4756. The listed starting load 10.3 grains as I recall, and maximum 13.0 grains or a bit more. Cross reference same bullet and powder in the DuPont manual the maximum load they showed is 4.6 grains!(I still have both manuals if you don't believe what I am saying) (I did not have the DuPont manual at the time) In short the maximum load listed by Speer was nearly triple the maximum load listed by the powder manufacturer. I began with the starting load and got extreme cratering of the primers, so I backed down to 10.0 and still had extreme flattening , but no cratering.
Since these were listed as standard pressure I settled on the 10.0 grains and proceeded to load it. I eventually fired some 200 rounds of this load in the Model 12 I owned at the time, with no damage to the gun
The point to all this is the Speer based load of 10.0 grains probably exceeded .357 Magnum PROOF pressure, and 200 rounds of this did no damage the gun that everyone is afraid to shoot .38+P in!
No, I never have shot any more of these loads in any revolver, except I did shoot a few in my Model 28 just to chronograph, and got over 1400 FPS!
Please no one take any of this as a recommendation, it is not!!!!!
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Alk8944
US Veteran
MURPHYDOG,
The "official factory CYA recommendation" regarding the model 12. is just as valid as the admonition by all firearms manufacturers to not shoot hand-loaded ammunition in their guns, so that if anything happens they can void the warrantee and say "We told you not to do that"!
Sometime in the past I saw from a printed S&W source that a K-Frame cylinder will not fail catastrophically until pressure exceeds 70,000 PSI. I wish I knew where I had seen this. Ask Roy, maybe he knows. It is also well known that a revolver will not fail catastrophically until the cylinder fails from excessive pressure!
I wish we could put this .38 Special +P B.S, at least as regards the Model 12, to rest!
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sigp220.45
US Veteran
Osprey did a Model 12 +P test a while back. Good reading.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-re...ugh-model-12-test-done.html?79395=#post766307
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-re...ugh-model-12-test-done.html?79395=#post766307
