Parker Shotguns.

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Anybody know anything about Parker shotguns? I know they're considered very good guns. My gandfather had a 20 ga, but I don't remember much about it.

I looked at one at the LGS the other day. It was a V-Grade, 12ga., 28" BBL,Blue. It looked like it had been well hunted, but locked up tight. Couple of minor sports of rust, but nothing really abused or anything. Basically it just looked like a well used, well cared for field gun.

I'm probably not really interested in buying it. I have no idea what I'd do with it other than look at it.

I also admit that I don't know enough about them to know that to look for, or to ask an intelligent question.

But darn that thing keeps nagging me. :) If I'm lucky someone else has bought it and I won't have to think about it.
 
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I love my Parker 1878 Gr 1 12ga, and see no reason to keep it in the safe. One of the joys of fall is to take out a shotgun made in 1884 for a few upland birds. In respect for it's age I keep the loads light, and only take it out in nice weather, makes for a great conversation starter when I shoot clays with it once or twice a summer... I hate to add to anyones addiction, but you will not be sorry you bought it... As for me I am still searching for a 20 ga. Parker L.C. Smith or Fox to join it in the safe....
 
They are special. I grew up quail hunting with a 20 gauge Trojan Model that my Dad inherited from his Uncle. I didn't realize what it was until I was in my 20s. I remember comparing my double with a friend's and being disappointed that I didn't have a Stevens 311 like his.:D

I take mine out and shoot a few pen-raised birds from time to time, just for old times sake. In my early 20s I traded for a Browning Sweet 16 with 26" barrel and IC choke. I pretty much semi-retired the Parker then.

Mine was the economy field grade model, but my understanding is that they all have the same internals, the higher grades just have more embellishment. I believe I checked the sn once and my gun was manufactured in 1916.
 
I love my Parker 1878 Gr 1 12ga, and see no reason to keep it in the safe. One of the joys of fall is to take out a shotgun made in 1884 for a few upland birds. In respect for it's age I keep the loads light, and only take it out in nice weather, makes for a great conversation starter when I shoot clays with it once or twice a summer... I hate to add to anyones addiction, but you will not be sorry you bought it... As for me I am still searching for a 20 ga. Parker L.C. Smith or Fox to join it in the safe....

Wouldn't your gun have twist or laminated barrels?
Be careful!
 
I did a little searching around and realized that I don't know enough to even know what this gun might be. All I know is what I posted earlier. It's a V-grade, 12 ga with 28" barrels. I know they're asking $850.00 for it, which is the lowest price I've ever seen on any Parker, at least since I've dared to look at the prices. I was actually surprised to see it on the "regular gun rack" and not in the collectors cabinet.

If it's still there the next time I stop in, I'll have to look it over closer and see what markings it has and such. If it hasn't been snatched up. Maybe if it hasn't that tells me something too. :D

As for me I am still searching for a 20 ga. Parker L.C. Smith or Fox to join it in the safe....

When I was a kid my grandfather had a 20 ga Parker that I just thought was the cats meow, and i didn't know anything about double guns at all. I believe he told me that he paid more than 100.00 for it when he bought it back in the late 20's, IIRC (I was just a kid, and he's been dead for 40 years). He then sent it back and had automatic ejectors installed. My Uncle has it now.

He had a 12 ga A.H. Fox also.
 
Parker

I have a trojan 30 in full & mod & I think it is a VH 26 in open & cyl bore not positive on mod #. Love to shoot them . Because they shoot on the bead some guns have to hold over or under point of aim . Can you take apart & ck bore size & stampings . Make sure it is not a Damascus barrel for that price
 
Wouldn't your gun have twist or laminated barrels?
Be careful!

Twist steel, I had it checked out by a gunsmith, and the bbl's are in quite good condition and I only use light lead loads. The issue of using twist and laminated bbl's is discussed rather often on double gun sites with many folks using the same with a good deal of success.....
 
Look in Shotgun News. A fellow named Chadicks LTD has an add for PARKERS & H.A. FOX. Probably knows more than anyone. He used to live somewhere around Terrell Texas.
 
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I have been a collector of American doubles for a while now. Parkers are nice guns and of the big name American doubles Parker is the one that holds its value the best. Somewhere around 1917 {or was it 1919} they did a redesign of the internal parts and made them alot better mechanically. All parkers can be put back on face with replaceable parts. The biggest thing to watch out for with double guns is the barrels themselves...they are soldered together and over time the solder can oxidize. Also, many doubles are "refinished" by someone that doesn't know how. Double barrels cannot be hot blued it will destroy the solder and can cause them to come apart. I suggest to anyone interested in old American double guns to read Michael MacIntosh' book titled "Shotguns and Shooting" There is an absolute wealth of info in there and the book {actually there were several in the series} is a very good read. There are not too many really good gun books out there that are enjoyable to read, but this is definately one of them. He has a chapter on buying a used double gun that includes in easy to understand explainations of exactly what to look for and how to check things out. The book may be a little hard to find now, but worth every penny and almost a requirement of anyone interested in doubles. FWIW, Parkers also have different frame sizes that can drive the price in addition to the grade. The 12 gauge guns standard frame was a 2, the 16 was a 1 1/2 and the twenty ga was a #1. It is rare to find a 12 ga on a #1 1/2 frame...even rarer on a #1, I have only seen one and I own it. All the frames were the same height, it was the width that is different. Best advice to someone buying a double...get an education or take someone with you that knows doubles, you can spend alot of money and end up stuck.
 
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Check the standard stuff on it. The serial number should match on the frame (action flat), bbls, forend (inside on the F/E iron flat). The trigger guard will have the serial # hand engraved on it even on the V grade.
No choke markings on the bbls till Remington took over production.

Make sure the bbls haven't been cut at all,,a real value killer on SxS guns,,especially Parkers, Fox, LC Smith and the like.
Not ncommon to see 30" bbls clipped to 28".
The old 'ends touching' doesn't always tell the whole story. Some left the factory w/o the tubes touching at the end. Some you can cut back 2 inches and still get the tubes to touch when resoldering.
The rib matting on top always had a blank empty space of about 1/16 to 1/8" at the muzzle. It didn't run right to the end and off.
It stopped short at a single hand cut line accross the rib and then the blank area in front of it.
Cut bbls will usually show the matting right to the end/edge of the rib.,,BUT sometimes if the matting is shallow enough, a space and cross line can be put back in there and all looks well again.

Bores can look great but also have been honed out. Depending on how much was taken out and how original you want the gun or for what purpose,,it should be priced accordingly.
Check choke constriction and choke length too. Cut bbls may still have a bit of the old choke in them,,but the length of the constriction inside the bore will be very short,,a sign they've been cut. Parker chokes were 2 to 2 1/2" in length.

An early enough 12ga gun will have 2 5/8" chambers IIRC. I can't remember right off hand when the 2 3/4" came to be standard. MAny have been lengthened,,some have had the forcing cones lengthened as well. Each job has to be judge by itself for quality and safety. The bbl starts to step down in thickness right about where the chamber/forcing cone is. Any work done there should be done only after some measuring and calculations. Same with bbl wall thickness and honing out the bores.
That stuff holds true for any sxs.

Butt plate standard was a hard rubber material w/ a 'dog's head' image in the center. A tiny spur extends and is inletted into the stock at the top on Meriden mfg..
The 'Dog's Head Butt Plate' is most common, but PArker would even on the V grade supply recoil pads from the factory.
Many times the fragile hard rubber plates have been cracked and then replaced with a later modern mfg'r recoil pad. Sometimes the stock cut along with that and the once again the value goes down.
Originality,,even just a hint of it on the gun,,is worth everything on a Parker.

'Off the face' bbls are not as easy a fix as Fox or LCS as far as parts change. The hinge pin is a complicated shape and it's not just a case of replacing with a slightly larger diameter one.
Look at the bbl 'hook' for any welding, refitting, peening, soldered shims, dovetailed inserts, ect. All attempts to tighten up a loose off the face action. Some work,,some should not be attempted.

Anything other than double triggers, extractors, pistol grip stock and splinter style forend is considered special order. Some features seen more often than others. Ejectors and single selective trigger drive the price up quicker than anything as far as options.

A 12ga on a #2 frame is very common. Others not so as 'msinc' points out above.
A garden variety 12 VH well worn shotgun but unaltered is probably priced about right in the $800 area. I stress 'unaltered'.
Educate yourself or have someone that knows the guns look it over before buying. I'll second the advise of msinc on that.
 
Thanks for the info all. I passed on it. It's a Trojan model. Not in bad shape at all, but it's been refinished and the shop guy told me it has short chambers. The S/N's all matched though, and the barrels have not been cut. I'd probably never shoot it, but I might want to.

I'll admit that I don't know a lot about them, but the fellow who owns this shop does, and he's always been a straight shooter.

Still I was tempted. It just jumped to my shoulder, and pointed like a finger. :D
 
Good info above too...thanks for the comments. IIRC the 2 3/4" chamber was commonplace around 1927ish. One thing to remember about American doubles when looking at cut barrels, a dead giveaway is the barrel length not being right on to the even inch. None of the factories cut barrels on odd inch lengths. Likewise, fractions like typically seen with european guns weren't used either.
I thought the Parker was relatively easy to put back on face, Galazan's had {maybe "had" is the right word here} all the parts. The hinge pin presses out fairly easily and you replace the "roll" {or was it called the barrel roll??}in the receiver. The barrel had a real small little wedge thing {I think it was just called the barrel wedge, maybe bolt plate??} near the breech underneath that was a wear replacement part for the top lever to engage.
One thing I always found funny about Parkers...they had different names for the barrel steel per the grade of gun. Yet, unless it was one of the highest grades that were offered with "Sir Joseph Whitworth Fluid Compressed Steel" it is a proven fact that all the steel was the same. They marked the barrel Vulcan Steel for the V grade, Special Steel for the G and Titanic Steel for the D's...The A-1 Special and the AAHE had Peerless Steel on the top of the rib. Steel was relatively new back then and great emphasis was placed on its strength and level of refinement. However, it was not all that by todays standards and what is generally regarded as the first really great gun steel to be alloyed was Chromox like used by Ansley Fox.

Dude, go back and get the gun...you like it, it's O.K. we know. Even if it is a Trojan...many an extensive collection started out with less. In my case, I was hooked by an old 16ga Lefever Nitro Special given to me by my wifes grandfather. It was a real jewel when I got it, it had a bandsawed 2X4 for a stock and to begin with the "Nitro Special" wasn't even a real Lefever...and has morphed into a 150K collection. The centerpiece being a tossup between a 20ga Ansley H. Fox XE like new and an unfired Lefever Arms EE.
 
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I love Parkers, used to own three including two hammer guns, one an underlever, but now down to one, a VH with straight stock, 26" tubes and all original although it shows its age. I bought it cheaply from my friend who didn't consider it fancy enough for him. The original owner was shot in the face and the stock still has two pellets in the wrist. I used to use it for shooting at dog trials. One thing about shotguns of this era is many had lots of drop in the stocks and you'll need to have a giraffe neck to shoot one. Mine fits perfectly like a glove.
 
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The VH grade is considered the field grade. The Trojan was an economy model offered to compete on price. The chambers can be lengthened to 2 3/4" pretty easily (cheap), and if it fits you, the battle is won. Go get it. You want lose money on it at $850.


Charlie
 
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Here's a Parker Trojan grade basket case I wound up with thirty five yrs ago, there's a unfinished buttstock with it. I never have gotten around to doin' anything with it. It got stolen and I recovered it, but the kid that swiped it had polished "all that green stuff" off the metal. He was lucky I was feeling non homocidal, I tell you. Don't know what to do with it nowdays.
 
My 20 gauge Trojan Model. I had a gentleman rust blue the barrels about 30 or so years ago. He did what I thought was a very good job. There is no case hardening left on the receiver. The old wood, especially the butt stock, was in bad shape. These stocks tend to split right behind the receiver, especially when they are fired over a long period with high pressure ammo. The guy who did the barrels ordered a new stock, but it didn't fit. He wouldn't let me pay him for any of the work. A few years back, I took the old wood to another local craftsman. He worked some pretty good magic with some kind of miracle stock glue and some brass pins. His advice, and my decision, was to limit use of the old gun to a few shots per year with some low-pressure 2.5 inch shells.

I killed my first Bobwhite Quail with this shotgun, some 52-53 years ago. I can see it like it was last November. I didn't have a dog. I flushed a single bird out of a patch of broom sedge, and killed it with one shot. I was 11 years old, about to be 12. I immediately took the bird to my Granny. She showed me how to singe it after picking. She cooked it for my dinner. That's a million dollar memory.

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I had a Parker collection BD (before Divorce)
I have not purchased any since then.Too painful. If it is solid $850 seems cheap compared to what I see on them now.

It probably is a VH if it has auto ejection it is a VHE and much more valuable. I had 1 16 gauge and 5 various models in 12 gauge, the neatest one was a 2BBL set "A" grade. I once drove all the way across the state of Missouri in an ice storm to buy a Parker VHE in 410 gauge. My uncle had a friend who passed, he had Parkers in 410 and 20 gauge. His son got the 20 and his Daughter got the 410. I told my uncle who knew the family very well that I wanted to buy both if possible. The son drank too much and sold his 20 on the way to a bar after the funeral. The daughter finally said she would sell, single mother and needed the money. I was given a good price and took a few hundred more to give her. I knocked and was invited in, we talked about her Dad, how rough it was for a single Mother and several other issues. Finally she said you came in some really bad weather to get this gunI'll get it and show it to you, she said her uncle just brought it to her before the ice storm started.

I was sitting on the couch, she walked into the bedroom, reached into the closet and pulled out a 410 double. My heart stopped, I died a lot as she walked to me expecting nice money. When she turned away from the closet I saw a 311 Savage/Stevens. I died hard. I knew her uncle had just cheated her. I felt badfor her but knew if I told her her uncle had swapped it out she would not believe me, her Dad had just passed, no bad news from me, no sir. I told her as I now sit here I can not buy your fathers inheritance from you. I would not feel right. Have your uncle take you to a collector I know in that area, he will give top dollar. I called the collector and he had not been contacted. Don't know what happened. I had picked up my Dad and he waited in the RAM, he said where is it? I told him, he said he knew her Uncle, he was slime.
 
The 12 gauge guns standard frame was a 2, the 16 was a 1 1/2 and the twenty ga was a #1. It is rare to find a 12 ga on a #1 1/2 frame...even rarer on a #1, I have only seen one and I own it. All the frames were the same height, it was the width that is different. Best advice to someone buying a double...get an education or take someone with you that knows doubles, you can spend alot of money and end up stuck.

I have always thought the 12 ga. #2 and the #1 1/2 16 ga. were a little heavy but I once saw a 16 ga. on a #1 frame and it was really nice. I bet the 12 ga. on a #1 frame is a sight to see and hold. Larry
 
A 20 guage Parker for $850.I'm surprised it was still there when you went back.

I was kinda surprised it was still there too, but that gun is a 12 ga, not a 20. The 20 I metioned belonged to my grandfather. I never shot it, but I remember seeing it when I was a kid.

I'll swing back by there in a few days. If it's still there I may rethink it. It looks a lot like the one Redlevel has pictured there, but his is probably a bit nicer. The fellow at the gun store said it had been refinished. It does not have automatic ejectors.
 
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