Parts for a S&W 38 Short Safety Hammerless 4th model

[Wiregrassguy]

I don't know if that is all your issue. But, the good news is Jack First sells the split spring. I recommend getting the book Gunsmithing Guns of the Old West by David Chicoine even if you never plan to work on another old Smith. It's fun to read how they made these guns work. Remember, the first top breaks made after the tip ups had fully automatic spent hull ejection. That mechanism is very sophisticated even today.

 

[glowe]

The split spring is anchored by a small pin to the cylinder stop and you can see the hole in the schematic. It assists the stop in the down position, so it was probably cracked and not fully performing its function.

I took apart one of my 38 Safeties to find how everything works. The split spring makes contact with the small knob on the bottom of the hammer (not shown on the schematic) that pushes down on the spring to drop the stop as you start the trigger pull. The small "ski jump" on the end of the split spring passes under the hammer knob and when clear as the hammer reaches full cock the stop pops back up.

 

[akc47]

Do you think this broken spring could keep the cylinder stop from rising up high enough to keep the cylinder from being locked by the cylinder stop?

 

[glowe]

Did anything change after half the spring dropped out? The split spring is there to push down against the flat cylinder stop spring at the rear of the cylinder stop. If it is not working, the stop should be in the raised (locked) position all the time, so back to the possibility that the stop is bent. The best bet is to get the spring from Jack First and disassemble the gun. That should allow you to test if the stop can rise fully or if it is part of the problem? Try to get a measurement of the height of the stop. It should be .060" or 1/16" high.

 

[akc47]

Thanks Gary. No nothing changed. My guess is it was already broke and happened to fall out when I took the grips and side panel off. Free spins when hand not on trigger and barely touches when trigger fully depressed. Maybe more of the broken spring is in there preventing the cylinder stop from working? Your suggestion to buy the spring is a good one since I know it is broke.

 

[tlay]

I am back in town. I sent you an email with my phone number. Please call me and we can work out the details. Since this was your Dads gun I won't charge you anything but parts to fix it.

 

[tlay]

I received the gun today. For info it is refinished. I will take it apart tomorrow and let you know what I find.

 

[akc47]

If after you do some more checking you end up needing a cylinder stop I should have one in my parts stuff. I tend to agree however that the stop should not be worn out . PM me if you need one and I will see what I have.

I can also send you a break down drawing for the gun if you need one.

Keith

If you have a cylinder stop for this gun please let me know, we now believe that is one thing it does need. Thanks

 

[tlay]

The cylinder stop in this model runs through the trigger and is actuated by a short stiff spring. It has been ground down and will not stop the cylinder when the trigger is a rest. When the trigger is pulled it will come out enough to stop the cylinder but it doesn't take much pressure to move it out of the stop. There is no split spring in this model so I don't know where those pieces came from. Some times people put them between the strain screw and main spring trying to stiffen it. The extractor does not work and only comes out part of the way, but that is an easy fix. I have a couple of cylinder stops but only one for a 38 but it is in no better shape. If anyone has one for a 38 safety hammerless and want to do some trading, let me know! I also have other parts I can trade. Even some hard to find firing pins!!

 

[akc47]

Well, Tlay did some amazing repair work and got this little revolver working again! It had a lot of problems but he found a way to get it working again. He test fired it yesterday! It hasn't fired a shot in 50 years until yesterday! And now when I open the safe and see this gun sitting there, I can hear my dad say "well done son". Thanks to all for the help, especially TLay.

 

[mmaher94087]

First off; congratulations to you and tlay for having the nerve to fix this revolver. Good job! I am, however, interested in hearing about: "There is no split spring in this model so I don't know where those pieces came from.". Anyone care to clarify that comment for me?

 

[tlay]

I don't know what anyone is calling a "split spring". It has many flat type springs, one for the safety that blocks the hammer, one for the cylinder stop, a V spring for the trigger return, a coil spring for the firing pin, a V spring for the latch for the barrel, a main spring, a coil spring in the cylinder for the extractor, and a small flat curved spring for the piece that helps to raise the extractor. I don't know of a split spring in this model.
I forgot the small flat spring for the advancing mechanism. Can't think of the name right now, Friday is wine and cheese day!!!

 

[mmaher94087]

Oh! My wife and I will be over in a half hour. We'll bring a nice bottle of La Creama; do you like Gruyere cheese?

The spring that I was inquiring about is number 468 in Gary's parts diagram in post #27 above. From your response and the "fix" I surmise that that it was present and intact. That is very lucky indeed.

"Can't think of the name right now..". I'm sure you'll think of: 'Hand Spring' in the middle of the night; don't call me... please.

Again, nice work!

 

[akc47]

"for having the nerve to fix this revolver"

The nerve to fix it or to fire it after he was done, lol

 

[tlay]

I tried to answer last night but lost the stupid internet! If the small piece off of the cylinder stop that is actuated by the nub on the hammer is a split spring then I apologize. It sure does not look like any split spring I am familiar with. But anyways it was there.
The problems with it were someone ground the cylinder stop down, probably the same person who renickeled it so they wouldn't have the line, and a broken trigger return spring.
I test fired it and everything works ok. But the extractor is sometimes slow to return all the way down. It will work as is. I took one of my guns apart for the parts. It is the least I can do for his Dad. I know how he feels because my Dad is not doing well. I would do it again!