UncleEd
Member
"Crisis," interesting word choice.
Paying to Rebuild the Ukraine
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"Crisis," interesting word choice.
Der Verminator
US Veteran
It's way more than "interesting."
Yesterday's crisis could have sparked the use of tactical nuclear weapons by Russia........which could have escalated into something far worse.
At the very least, rebuilding Ukraine would have become a far bigger job.
At worst.........nuclear world war.
Probably more crises coming soon.
UncleEd
Member
So you believe Russia is getting
its butt kicked and Putin is
desperate.
Wait until the winter offensive by the
Ukrainians to retake Crimea.
Der Verminator
US Veteran
I think Putin is playing rope a dope.
If he were desperate he'd have already used tactical nukes.
Chess game in progress. If we could only see a few moves ahead we'd have an idea of how big the rebuilding job will be.
Or if the destruction may move beyond Ukraine.
GypsmJim
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That's probably true. I guess we must owe the world.
When mother nature hits the world's peoples we are always the first to respond with help.
We just had a catastrophe in FL and beyond. When has ANYONE EVER come to our aid?
Well, we didn't pay for East Germany to unite with West Germany after the USSR collapsed, nor for any of the European Eastern bloc to rebuild then.
From Reuters on Lyman:
KYIV, Oct 1 (Reuters) - Russia said on Saturday its troops had abandoned the key bastion of Lyman in occupied eastern Ukraine, a stinging defeat that prompted a close ally of President Vladimir Putin to call for the possible use of low-grade nuclear weapons.
From Reuters on Lyman:
KYIV, Oct 1 (Reuters) - Russia said on Saturday its troops had abandoned the key bastion of Lyman in occupied eastern Ukraine, a stinging defeat that prompted a close ally of President Vladimir Putin to call for the possible use of low-grade nuclear weapons.
After the 1906 San Francisco earthquake, Japan sent funds for rebuilding.
...Japan stepped forward in 1906 to help San Francisco's victims and gave $250,000 - the most of any other country - toward the city's recovery....
San Francisco Marks 105th Anniversary of 1906 Earthquake - CBS San Francisco
Another, more recent example:
...Soon after the destruction of Hurricane Katrina was made clear, countries from around the world gave a staggering amount of foreign aid to the U.S. In total, over 90 countries offered the U.S. $854 million in cash and oil (to be sold for cash). Besides big spenders like the United Arab Emirates, who pledged $100 million in cash and $400 million in oil, frequent recipients of U.S. aid added their offers to the table. Bangladesh pledged $1 million along with rescue workers. Thailand, having only one year earlier suffered through the massive tsunami, offered 60 doctors and nurses, and rice as a "gesture from the heart." Donors were not limited to friends, either. Cuba, a country that repeatedly rejected U.S. humanitarian aid in the past, offered the services of 1,100 doctors...
Foreign Aid to the U.S. During Hurricane Katrina- BORGEN
bigwheelzip
Absent Comrade
Another ignorant clown with a short memory.
After 9/11, approximately one out of every four soldiers dying on the field of battle against terror, was a foreign ally. Belittling their shared sacrifice is unconscionable.
Afghanistan losses:
Albania: 1
Australia: 41
Belgium: 1
Canada: 158
Croatia: 1
Czech Republic: 14
Denmark: 43
Estonia: 9
Finland: 2
France: 86
Georgia: 29
Germany: 54
Hungary: 7
Italy: 48
Jordan: 2
Latvia: 3
Lithuania: 1
NATO: 18
Netherlands: 25
New Zealand: 11
Norway: 10
Poland: 40
Portugal: 2
Romania: 25
Slovakia: 3
South Korea: 1
Spain: 34
Sweden: 5
Turkey: 14
United Kingdom: 455
United States: 2465
Iraq losses:
Australia: 2
Azerbaijan: 1
Bulgaria: 13
Canada: 1
Czech Republic: 1
Denmark: 7
El Salvador: 5
Estonia: 2
Fiji: 1
France: 1
Georgia: 5
Germany: 1
Hungary: 1
Italy: 33
Kazakhstan: 1
Latvia: 3
Netherlands: 2
Poland: 23
Romania: 3
Slovakia: 4
South Korea: 1
Spain: 11
Thailand: 2
Ukraine: 18
United Kingdom: 182
United States: 4586
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This is just another backdoor attempt to resurrect the "Russians have gone in thread" populated by the same band of chest beaters. God forbid someone should voice an opinion that goes against the prevailing grain.
This is why I rarely engage in these lopsided threads.
"Ignorant clown"? I expected better.
I should have known better. I'm out.
This is why I rarely engage in these lopsided threads.
"Ignorant clown"? I expected better.
I should have known better. I'm out.
HOUSTON RICK
Member
Never waste a good crisis. US taxpayers will foot much of the bill, but the money will ultimately be subcontracted to the companies owned by US politicians, so it will all work out as usual. Not to worry.
Der Verminator
US Veteran
Only those few who are unsettled by polysyllabic words.
bigwheelzip
Absent Comrade
No one is there to help us? How many allied mother's sons must die at our behest, before we feel their sacrificed lives count enough to be acknowledged by us.
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The FiveEyes always die with us. Always.
Just few years ago, an IS bombmaker known as Marawan was hiding at Mamasapano, Mindanao. We wanted him badly, and let our Filipino friends know where he was. Forty-four Philippine National Police SAF troopers died killing him and returning from hostile jungle.
Marawan was a danger to us, not them, but Filipinos are our friends, many unto death.
Apples and oranges. How many in your list died on US soil? As in, for example, Main St. Nebraska USA? None. It's more than a little obvious, the "Ignorant Clown" in the picture is referring to US soil, not some foreign cesspool of a dirt spec on the world map.
Der Verminator
US Veteran
Seems to me that these threads end badly because a few people start namecalling and attacking others just because they have a different opinion.
The war is a good topic.
Instead of locking the thread........why not just give the namecallers a few days of vacation from the forum?
Why not punish the guilty instead of the rest of us???
Does that seem too rational and logical?
The war is a good topic.
Instead of locking the thread........why not just give the namecallers a few days of vacation from the forum?
Why not punish the guilty instead of the rest of us???
Does that seem too rational and logical?
bigwheelzip
Absent Comrade
The picture refers to coming to the aid of the United States when things go sideways, like so many did after 9/11/01.
I'm sure the many Brits, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, etc. on this forum who lost countrymen at our side in Iraq and Afghanistan, know what the cost of being our ally is.
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I'm a little confused as to whether you are referring to the man holding the sign, or Rustyt1953?
bigwheelzip
Absent Comrade
The man holding the sign. I don't believe Rusty, being half British, would disrespect the 637 Brits who lost their lives post-9/11, at our side.I'm a little confused as to whether you are referring to the man holding the sign, or Rustyt1953?
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Der Verminator
US Veteran
Back to the war........and the chess game being played out in Ukraine........
Putin is losing ground slowly without any relief in sight--unless he escalates to nukes.
If Russia uses tactical nukes........he wins immediately and decisively.
Unless.........there's a bold and decisive move by the U.S.
Would we immediately give tactical nukes to the Ukrainians?
McManus: Putin'''s nuclear threat on Ukraine may not be bluff - Los Angeles Times
Putin is losing ground slowly without any relief in sight--unless he escalates to nukes.
If Russia uses tactical nukes........he wins immediately and decisively.
Unless.........there's a bold and decisive move by the U.S.
Would we immediately give tactical nukes to the Ukrainians?
McManus: Putin'''s nuclear threat on Ukraine may not be bluff - Los Angeles Times
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While I think Rusty may have believed the comment was directed at him, I had no doubt that your comment was directed at the man with the sign.
Re foreigners coming to our aid in wartime on our soil, since the Revolutionary War, when the French were here fighting with us, I don't think we've had any wars in the US except for our Civil War, in which, I think most would agree, foreign militaries fighting in behalf of one side or the other would have have exacerbated that fratricidal tragedy.
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Recall that both we and the UK are bound to defend Ukraine if they suffer a nuclear attack. We agreed to that in 1994 in the Budapest Memorandum.
I never get involved in these threads. Reading this makes my hair hurt 
You just did . . .
I never get involved in these threads. Reading this makes my hair hurt
Der Verminator
US Veteran
Defense may be too strong a word. The signers seem to have interpreted "defense" as sending weapons and equipment.
The U.S. and U.K. and France only agreed to "assurances" of Ukrainian security........not "guarantees" as Ukraine requested.
That memorandum only says that the signers agree to:
"1. Respect the signatory's independence and sovereignty in the existing borders.[6]
2. Refrain from the threat or the use of force against the signatory.
3. Refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by the signatory of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.
4. Seek immediate Security Council action to provide assistance to the signatory if they "should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used".
5. Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against the signatory.
6. Consult with one another if questions arise regarding those commitments.[7][8]"
And.......then there's this:
"Regardless, the United States publicly maintains that "the Memorandum is not legally binding", calling it a "political commitment".[21]
Russia has violated that memorandum since 2014 and our response has only been sanctions and sending military equipment but no troops........it seems our level of response has been demonstrated.
So.......it IS possible that if Russia attacked Ukraine with tactical nuclear weapons we could increase that assistance to providing the Ukrainians with tactical nuclear weapons.......but that would be a profoundly dangerous step.
Budapest Memorandum - Wikipedia
UncleEd
Member
Regarding nuclear threat.
I withdrew the question.
Why bother.
I withdrew the question.
Why bother.
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David Patreaus had an interesting take on NATO's response to a tactical nuclear strike
Petraeus: US would destroy Russia's troops if Putin uses nuclear weapons in Ukraine | Ukraine | The Guardian
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Maybe in another time with another administration.
Der Verminator
US Veteran
There's a saying from some of the Putin experts.......it goes, "Putin always escalates."
If we did what Petraeus says, Putin would have no choice but to launch a total world nuclear war.
But.......Petraeus may think so, but I don't think we could ever get NATO to participate in a strike that would wipe out the Black Sea fleet and most of Putin's army.
There is neither such will or such courage in NATO.
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