Pebble Copper Mine in Alaska

[jlrhiner]

The rub is, all the mining done today can be done in an environmentally friendly way. But it costs money! Profit margins are reduced by a few percentage points and that is unacceptable. Almost all of the reclaimed areas trashed by mining that are thriving were done with taxpayer dollars after the fact.

They want to mine in this pristine area? Fine. Estimate the cost of restoration, triple it, and hold it in a trust until the land is reclaimed.

After all, I, (as a Citizen), must sacrifice this environment in the name of Patriotism for the benefit of the Nation. The mine owners can sacrifice some profits for the same reason.

 

[joesmith357]

The rub is, all the mining done today can be done in an environmentally friendly way. But it costs money! Profit margins are reduced by a few percentage points and that is unacceptable. Almost all of the reclaimed areas trashed by mining that are thriving were done with taxpayer dollars after the fact.

They want to mine in this pristine area? Fine. Estimate the cost of restoration, triple it, and hold it in a trust until the land is reclaimed.

After all, I, (as a Citizen), must sacrifice this environment in the name of Patriotism for the benefit of the Nation. The mine owners can sacrifice some profits for the same reason.

Well said, but it will never happen. The companies buy politicians like kids buy candy.

 

[rwsmith]

It's good to have a real reason.....

And after the copper is gone the mines will have destroyed the Salmon runs, the Caribou migration paths etc, etc. and you will be left with a waste land and no recourse because the mines will be held by a holding company that will declare bankruptcy and default on all their responsibilities and debts not to mention any retirement money they owe to the miners. To make things worse the copper will be sold to the Chinese who will sell it back to use in things that should be made hear. That gold mine and the mine some clowns want build at the head waters where the copper river salmon spawn are the worst thing since the internal lock on S&W's

It's good to have a real reason for not wanting to mine rather than some vague threat.

 

[dave b]

If we would all turn our air conditioners off and ride bicycles more, we wouldn't have such a problem. You first.

 

[AKRuss]

The point of permitting, bonding and monitoring (EPA) mining operations is to protect the health of the environment and make sure all is reclaimed once operations cease. Most, not all, mining disasters were created prior to the EPA getting started (1970) and requiring the above. Bonding ensures there is money for reclamation even if the company goes bankrupt. There have been mining (reclamation) disasters due to poor govt requirements, generally due to outside pressure - the political thing. There should be no mines going in that can't be made good again. If there is - sue their butt off!

 

[e-jism]

Wow! Who knew so many environmentalists owned guns? Wuzz and Andy are right, new technologies do create less environmental damage, while still allowing us to obtain the resources we need right here in the U.S. The alternative; buy the resources from the middle east and Asia, and we all know how careful these countries are when extracting and refining mineral resources.

 

[pharmer]

See China and the industrial third world for the toxic wastelands that no regulation gives you. Is that what you want in America?

All or nothing. That's why it's called "extremism." There's a solution and part of it is getting what we need. Oil, gas, metals, it don't matter. We need them and up till very recently we got after them. We know better how to protect the environment now and that also will be part of the solution. Although buying raw materials from China and letting them drown in their toxic waste might be current "long term strategic planning" considering the mopes running the country currently. Joe

 

[Onomea]

And in 1930 there was literally not a tree standing East of the Mississippi River due to clear cutting....

Why say something like this? It weakens your argument because it is obviously untrue.

I am with those who argue for balance.

 

[Old 44 Guy]

It's time to retire the EPA.

 

[charlie sherrill]

Separate the EPA from their "agenda" and we might get somewhere. I'm all for getting the goods and cleaning up the mess but I fear the EPA are in bed with the IRS and the rest of the lefties and have become controlled by left wing politics. If the EPA had their way ammunition would be banned because it has the "potential" to be a hazardous material. I think their permitting process is a very expensive way to justify their existence. Get the politics out of it, mine or drill for the stuff we need, and then clean it up. It can be done, but someone may lose a little power if we do it right.

 

[Sven]

It can be done, but someone may lose a little power if we do it right.

Someone's going to lose a bit of power if we don't do it right.

I work at a coal fired power plant. WE ARE doing it right -- spending millions on a new scrubber (after winning environmental awards for the 35 year old original scrubber it will be replacing), and that's after spending millions more on burner management on the furnace side to reduce NOx. We'll be the second cleanest power plant in MN when it's completed, but the EPA is still coming after us. Our sister plant is #1.

People have to realize the wind doesn't ALWAYS blow. . . 9 time out of 10 on the coldest nights and hotest days when load is the highest, the wind is NOT blowing and the wind farms are sucking energy in, not producing.

Many those idealistic college kids who went to college for environmental studies or engineering have turned into environmental extreemists, and guess where they found jobs? EPA or related state level jobs.

 

[Xtasy]

Well I do think we need a healthy balance between protecting our environment and economy. We can not allow companies just to erode whole ecosystems for max profit and after everything is extracted leave burned earth. I think companies have a huge responsibility and should be held accountable.

But as usually the big dollars talk as we can see right now in the Indian River Lagoon here in Florida.

Dairy farmers, ranches and other industries are dumping all their waste water into Okeechobee. It is untreated sewage water with high quantities of phosphorus and other chemicals. To control the overflowing of the lake the Army corps of engineers is releasing the water into the Indian River Lagoon.
We now managed that you can't swim anymore in the Indian River and parts of the ocean. Bacteria and alleges are releasing deadly toxins in the water creating a hazardous environment. Local governments are advising people that entering the water poses serious health risks and people are send to hospitals with rashes.

Today is a 10.000 people really on the beaches to finally have the State step in. The problem has been known for years but the State of Florida does not see a problem as the big $ are rolling


@Sven

I feel you, and that is always the problem with extremists... Nothing will satisfy but their agenda.

On the left you can see the dirt water

 

[Sven]

Now that is something I just don't understand. We have VERY strict limits on what we are able to discharge into the river. Part of my job is to oversee our waste water treatment facility. If we have an upset in the system, we go to very great lengths to insure we don't have any kind of "spill" at all. Basicly, the only thing we discharge is a little bit of heat. We raise the downstream temperature of the Mississippi at most 1 degree F. Guess where the best fishing in the area is? That's right, right at the discharge. As a matter of fact, the local game warden keeps a close eye on the action there.

Yes, I remember the Cuyahoga River, Love Canal, and more locally, the pollution in the St. Louis River -- very few fish, and if you did happen to catch, say, a walleye, you certianly wouldn't EAT it! Thankfully, the St. Louis has mostly recovered and is again a great fishery. And it was thanks to the EPA, MPCA, etc. that most ecosystems have been restored. But there is no reason to get so carried away -- we can't go back to the 18th century and no one would really want to. Life expectanies of 45 to 50, who ever wanted and was able to could through up a dam for a mill pond, etc. We still burn carbon based fuel. CO2 as percent of atmosphere has gone from 0.0387% to a max recorded of 0.0400% (an increase of 0.0013% in percent of atmosphere). Those zeros and decimal points are ni the correct places. I think there's something more powerful than us making any changes in the climate. . .

Back to the original post -- the copper companies (and all industry) still need some form of over-sight to keep them honest.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Problem is we got too many people on earth. Think geometric progression as opposed to linear growth. People need resources pure and simple.World population has exploded. And you know what the base cause of population explosion is? So think about that big old copper mine next time you snuggle up to your partner-step back and ask yourself "Is it worth it?" Then go take a cold shower and get a sammich.

 

[Xtasy]

There is really nothing to add

And you are absolutely right that the industry does need an oversight.
What really turns my stomach is looking at those oil sands. I do hope there are some plans on giving back to nature what we took...

And yes to get back to the topic.
Do companies actually have to present a plan for the period after they are done with they excavations?

I do understand that we depend on the resources but we should ensure that honest companies work the area.

 

[dougb1946]

Problem is we got too many people on earth. Think geometric progression as opposed to linear growth. People need resources pure and simple.World population has exploded. And you know what the base cause of population explosion is? So think about that big old copper mine next time you snuggle up to your partner-step back and ask yourself "Is it worth it?" Then go take a cold shower and get a sammich.

Malthusian theory shows this to be a self correcting problem.

 

[Sven]

Do companies actually have to present a plan for the period after they are done with they excavations?

I do understand that we depend on the resources but we should ensure that honest companies work the area.

Yes, but it goes state by state. In MN, they have to put money up front and have a closure plan approved by the DNR, who manages the state's minerals. Up here on da range, there is ongoing reclamation of the old iron mines.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Malthusian theory

Yea.that's it Malthusian theory, yea,that's it.

 

[Onomea]

...So think about that big old copper mine next time you snuggle up to your partner-step back and ask yourself "Is it worth it?" Then go take a cold shower and get a sammich.

Ya know, Caje, I don't think that approach is gonna catch on too quick....