Performance Center quality

[wnwitzell]

I have noticed several complaints regarding the quality of recently manufactured Smith and Wesson revolvers (i.e. canted barrels etc.). I am thinking of purchasing a 627 PC and am concerned about spending that kind of money for shoddy workmanship. All my current revolvers are prelock models and are functioning perfectly. Anyone have experience they wish to share?
Thanks

 

[AveragEd]

I can't offer much in the way of feedback on a PC revolver but I do own two PC 1911s and sent one back for attention to something I perceived as a problem. It turned out to be a normal condition for that model but here is what gave me high levels of satisfaction with the PC.

The actual gunsmith working on the gun called me to discuss his findings. That's remarkable in this day and age and it was a whole lot better than the usual handling of a similar case - send the gun back with a vague explanation of what was done.

Accordingly, even though we have read about some possible slacking quality, I would buy more PC guns because of the service behind them.

Ed

 

[bigwheelzip]

Your best insurance is a thorough inspection before purchase. There is a good warranty, but "within spec", is not good enough for some owners.

I have a new PC 686 Plus, and the upgraded parts and smoother action were worth the price to me. If all the gun configurations were available with a PC treatment option, I'd buy them that way.

 

[Arik]

Your best insurance is a thorough inspection before purchase. There is a good warranty, but "within spec", is not good enough for some owners.

This right here ^

Also remember that the horror stories you hear are only from people who have had issues. You never see anyone post about buying a gun with no issues. People tend to complain more.

For example, on Sunday I took a new to me gun to the range. Fired 500 rounds. I didn't post anything because nothing unusual happened. Ammo went in one end, came out the other and done. Nothing to post about



Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[Hapworth]

I think what sets the PC guns apart first and foremost is non-standard configuration; after that, more hands on attention to the build itself, sometimes.

I've seen standard examples that were better put together than their PC counterparts, and vice versa; to me it comes down to buying the gun that has the features I'm looking for -- PC or not -- and either way inspecting closely before buying.

 

[catadjuster]

I have the 627PC - just dropped it at FedEx yesterday for a trip back to the factory. It has a condition of FTF at about 7% rate (over about 2500 rounds of ammo through it). I checked everything that I could without taking the sideplate off the gun. Tightened the strain screw, cleaned and lubed the firing pin bushing etc. I finally decided that it wasn't going to cure itself and I wasn't going to fix it myself.

I called S&W and they sent me a shipping label so there was no cost return it for service etc. That part of the process has been painless, so take that for what it is worth. I can't comment on how they will handle the repair as it hasn't even gotten to them yet, but I am pretty confident that it will be handled.

Neither of the PC guns that I have show any issue with the barrel offset or any of the other things I have seen complained about here - I also bought both of them sight unseen. Not sure if that would matter, but thought I would add that element.

If the gun seems to suit your purposes, I wouldn't hesitate to pick it up FWIW.

 

[ohiojerry]

I have both the 627 and the 327 RR8 and they are both as close to perfect as a man-made object can be.

 

[sasu]

I am one of the people complaining here about S&W quality assurance but as someone wisely wrote a couple of days ago, we hear mostly about the problems, not about good guns.

So to balance things I can tell you that I have about a dozen S&W handguns, e.g. 29 Mountain Gun, 629 Trail Boss, 29, 329PD, 4506, 5906, 5906STW, 18, 19, 327 R8, 686+, and they are all flawless, accurate, reliable and beautiful.

 

[AveragEd]

I've often told this story around car people but it applies here too. I am a retired GM dealership service director and would occasionally overhear a technician, service advisor or parts counterperson gripe about GM quality. On those occasions, I would walk the employee outside and talk about anything for a minute or so. Then I would ask if he or she noticed all the GM vehicles that had driven past on the busy state highway out front without turning in for repairs. They got the message.

When all you see - or in our case, hear about - are the problems it is easy to assume a negative attitude toward that product. If any product is as bad as we sometimes suspect that S&W handguns are, the company would be out of business due to a lack of sales.

Mistakes happen; how the manufacturer handles them makes all the difference. Any company can offer great service when there aren't any problems - it's how they react to problems that separates the good ones from the bad.

Ed

 

[sw282]

I have PC revolvers and l have production revolvers...
Accuracy wise and action smoothness l don't see a dimes worth of difference between the two..
l prefer the PC revolvers because they have features that set them
apart from production guns. Last weekend was a prime example where
Production S&W revolvers posted higher scores than PC Smiths at our
IHMSA match in Lincolnton..
To me a production revolver shoots just as good as a PC revolver.
PCs just look better doing it

 

[dwever]

Last weekend was a prime example where
Production S&W revolvers posted higher scores than PC Smiths at our
IHMSA match in Lincolnton.
To me a production revolver shoots just as good as a PC revolver.
PCs just look better doing it

Well that would really be the shooter wouldn't it?

 

[jaymoore]

Well that would really be the shooter wouldn't it?

I've found the same results, and am running standard .44 mags instead of PCs (or even DXs) for competition. Mostly because of the AFS on the 29-3s and the excellent MIM actions in either the 629-6 or 625-7. Not that I met goals at the last match! But where would be the fun in that?

 

[old 1911 fan]

I have two 29s. My first a 6.5" 29-2 that I bought new after that darn Clint Eastwood movie. Back then if you were lucky enough to find one you bought it! Mine had a flaw in the finish, but I got one wood box and all. It has the kind of trigger and accuracy that made Smith and Wesson famous. A few years ago I inherited a 3" 629-6 PC Carry Comp. I love it. It has been on my hip on several bear hunts. It shoots well, has a good trigger and carries easier than the 6.5". They are different guns made in different times. Both are outstanding examples of some of the finest revolvers available.

old 1911 fan

 

[BLUEDOT37]

I have the 627PC - just dropped it at FedEx yesterday for a trip back to the factory. It has a condition of FTF at about 7% rate (over about 2500 rounds of ammo through it).

Just recently I purchased a 325TR & a 327TRR8 (PC revolvers). Both have light primer strikes & FTFs. S&W seems to have two length firing pins they're installing. These have the "short" firing pins in them. There's no reason for S&W to keep installing the short .486" firing pins randomly in guns & the .500" firing pins in others. My 627PC has the .500 F/P, which I temporarily put in the 327TRR8 to get some range time on it (it shot fine in it), pending the new firing pins I ordered.

The 327 has a commendable .003" B-C gap but is negatively offset by .003" of endshake. It's out-of-the box SA trigger is one of the roughest I've had. Both had 4.5# SA trigger pulls, definitely not "PC tuned quality". I smoothed/lightened them up to 2.5#.

My brand new 625-8 PC had a barrel constriction, at the frame, right out of the box. A .443" pin gage, the largest that can be inserted in the muzzle, falls smoothly thru the barrel until it gets to where the barrel threads into the frame & is firmly stopped there. A .442" pin gage will pass the constriction. When firing cast lead bullets in it they start leading at that point. The barrel is canted (more than I thought when I bought it) & the rear sight has to be adjusted fully to the right to to hit POA. My 686+ has the same problem.

The 627PC 5"bbl. 8-Times I bought a few months ago had a forcing cone that was sorely lacking. Circular grooves in it that ended abruptly at the rifling with turned up edges, and, from what I've read, cut too wide. I used the Brownells Revolver Chamfering Tool Kit I bought last year, for another project, to clean it up. Can't fix the "too wide" but now, at least, it has a nice transition to it.

The 625PC & 627PC had poorly chamfered crowns, which I also cleaned up with tools I got from Brownell's. I've posted pictures of a few of my revolver's muzzles before (so I won't again here) that I wasn't happy with. I re-did them myself too.

As stated already, being a Performance Center gun doesn't guarentee anything. Buy it if it has the style/features you want. Some standard production guns are perfectly fine (yes, I have some) while some PC guns may not be, & vice versa. This hasn't stopped me yet, obviously.

It's just best to scrutinize your "new find" closely before you buy.

.

 

[sasu]

Very sad. I think I made the right choice yesterday ordering a Ruger Super Redhawk instead of the 629 Perf Center I had planned. I already have one new S&W at the gunsmith's to have the frame straightened, it seems possible it was bent when installing the barrel. I am overseas so do not have access to S&W warranty repairs.

I will stick to my existing S&Ws until I start hearing they have improved quality consistency. And keep buying new Rugers and Freedom Arms.

 

[dwever]

Here we go again - these threads always transition to, "being a Performance Center gun doesn't guarentee anything" and "here's all the problems I've had." and "QC at S&W sucks" and "Glad I bought a Ruger instead" and "avoid the 8-33% chance of getting a dud by not buying new S&Ws."* As has been well documented in numerous studies, forums distort reality as general perception is often shaped by the exceptions and the anecdotal.

For the record, my Performance Center purchases new since 2007 without a single da*n problem have included:

1911 Melonite .45
629 7.5" Barrel
627 5" Barrel
627 times three 2.625" Barrel (TK Custom Defensive action job x2)
586 L-Comp 3" Barrel (TK Custom Defensive action job & agency qualified with)
686+ 2.5" Barrel

These discussions are in some respects becoming increasingly academic as the revolver steadily becomes a respected anachronism. No matter how good you build a revolver inside the Perf Ctr or out, it's 2016, and revolvers are still a thing belonging to a period other than in which it exists, see the ATF figures for empirical evidence of it's demise. Having said that, I believe with the right revolver and training, where the weapon is at least 35 oz. with a defensive action job, it can more than hold it's own in a gun fight as long as capacity doesn't become an issue which it almost never ever will. Thing is, people won't do that. They'll buy a Glock at half the price with twice the capacity, and that Glock will work perfectly out of the box. Something we can't say here.

*And the completely absurd assumption that if you compete with a PC weapon you should beat the stock weapons. Some guys are going to win with virtually any weapon they pick up, and some guys will lose doing the same.

 

[sasu]

Of my about a dozen new S&W purchases in the last ten years four had problems: bent frame makes the gun unshootable, rough chamber in a Perf Center pistol looks ugly but does not seem to affect function, one revolver chamber with very rough chamber end, looks like finishing reamer was not run to the end. The fourth was a 1911 with poor accuracy (6"-8" groups at 25 yards), I had the whole barrel replaced (now 1.5"-2" groups) - you decide if that was a fault or within spec.

That is about 4/12 = 33% failure rate cosmetically, 1/12 = 8% or 2/12 = 17% failure rate functionally, depending on how you classify the inaccurate 1911.

I have no way to send guns to warranty repair so I will from now on avoid the 8-33% chance of getting a dud by not buying new S&Ws. Is this not a reasonable choice?

If I had more money I would gladly buy S&W guns in threes and choose the best of three and sell the other two.

 

[jaymoore]

Stupidly enough, I'm probably the only one who thinks S&W's average quality is generally better than what they were building in the 1970's or '80s. With the notable exception of the stupid barrel thread relief cut they adopted when pinned barrels went away.

Have been rejecting Smiths, new and used, vintage and current, for dramas before purchase since I turned 21, so over 30 years....Yikes! But still buying after all this time. And have long since learned how to sort most minor annoyances.

 

[sw282]

A score of Smith revolvers buys over the last 10years..
Virtually ALL off the net.. 0nly 2 new out of the 20.. Rest
were USED...No mechanical issues with ANY, save one basket
case Model 19.. Factory made it NEW tho.. Factory work good..
Gun quality good. Buying USED may be the BEST way to go..
Sure works w/vehicles.. Guns too

 

[Hemi Dude]

PC 686+

Just bought a PC 686+ 2.5 inch. Love the gun trigger very nice, no dings dents or problems. Shoots great when I do my part. Bought a 617 few months ago same situation no problems, had a trigger job done and use for Steel Challenge. Revolvers Rule.

 

[H Richard]

I have bought two new revolvers, a 431PD and a 432PD (both 32 H&R Mag) within the last 5 months. Both have at least 300 - 500 rounds through them and without a problem. The side-plate seam was so perfectly fit on the 432PD I had to look very carefully to see it. The 431PD was shipped this April so it is current new construction. The carry up is the best I have felt, locked into place before the hammer gets fully back in DA. The black matte finish is hard and tough, and shows no wear after being carried for a couple months. The new rubber grips actually do fit my hand great and the accuracy is what you expect and desire for a 2" light weight carry revolver.

 

[sasu]

Some examples.

29 Mountain Gun chambers. I assume this is just cosmetic, I cannot see this having an effect on the function of the gun, except making it a bit harder to clean.

PC945 chamber finish. The gun extracts reliably so this is just cosmetic.

These examples make me wonder how S&W examines guns before boxing them for shipping. It would be very easy for them to correct such minor mistakes before the gun goes out, rather than ship guns back and forth for warranty repairs.

1911 with factory installed barrel at 25 yards

The same pistol with a new aftermarket barrel installed by a local gunsmith at the same distance with the same ammo

 

[Gunsguna]

I have a m&p 9L Performance Center. The gun has performed flawlessly. I have over 500 rounds thru it now without one FTF or FTE. And I did bother to make multiple posts about how well this gun has performed. And because this gun has performed so well, I am heavily considering a s&w 1911 e-series. I'm ready to pull the trigger on this gun as soon as I find out what size and kind of cut the sights have. It may take an act of God to find out.

 

[revolver686]

I have two performance Center Revolvers, one of which is cosmetically and functionally perfect, the other required a return to S&W for repair of a tool mark which had no affect on its function. I'm very satisfied with both.

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[BLUEDOT37]

These examples make me wonder how S&W examines guns before boxing them for shipping. It would be very easy for them to correct such minor mistakes before the gun goes out, rather than ship guns back and forth for warranty repairs.

Amen!

While I'd be willing to guess that some of us look too closely at our new investments when we get them, others just see an outline of a gun & are happy, never knowing, or caring, what lies beneath. Either way, in the end, if you're happy with it that's all that matters.

.

 

[HorizontalMike]

My PC627 looked great on arrival, but trigger had a distinct stepped mechanical pull. Accuracy and assembly looked fine as well. However, opening it up, I found it to be bone-dry. No lubrication at all (-10 for S&W PC). I took the time and lubed everything with a high quality Moly (Jet-Lube MP50). After a couple hundred caps, this was a much improved gun. I evaluated it on Bud's GS, and that can be seen there.

Bottom line is that, as stated many times above, there is NO guarantee that a S&W PC gun will be any better than "....." Maybe PC's designs are a cut above, but often times their assembly/execution is no better than other current S&W production-line guns. I still consider my bought new 1986 4" 686 better than my other S&Ws purchased in the last 5yr but I am keeping my PC627.

 

[army-eod]

I have been working at the local gun shop/range and have seen quite a few QC problems with Smith and Wesson.

One in particular was a Performance Center 44 Mag with a bolted on muzzle brake. I noticed that the customer's revolver had a serious problem after coming off the range. The brake was loose, tilted downward and part of the brake was actually broken off; assume a round hit it on the way out of the bbl. Not good.

This customer returned that revolver to Smith FOUR TIMES before it would shoot rounds without muzzle brake coming loose.

Personally, I would have asked for a full refund after the first problem. It could have caused very serious problems.

I am not buying any new Smiths. I have an older -2 and am shopping for another.

But new; no.

Sorry, but this is just a fact. The QC is terrible.

 

[AveragEd]

Muzzle brakes loosening is pretty much a fact of life. I have them on a few rifles and have found two things. If you do nothing but keep tightening it, you eventually won't have to but then you won't be able to remove it either. And if you wrap its threads with teflon tape, it will stay tight a lot longer while still being able to be removed for cleaning.

They are a wonderful felt recoil defeater but do make the firearm louder to those around it.

Ed

 

[GunarSailors]

I have nothing but good things to say about my
Performance Center 27-8 five inch.

 

[Tom S.]

I bought a 629 PC gun. It was great inside and out with one exception: the yoke screw was boogered up. Yes, I got another one, but it surprised me it made it out of the factory like that.

The gun: