Performance Center - still poor production

Solid Hit

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May 30, 2005
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The Upstate of SC
I am not one to complain about products that do not perform as expected or advertised but in this instance, I need to vent. A month after buying a S&W Performance Center model 41, I had to return it for service. The gun was a problem from the first shot and after a brick of different ammo, it was still unreliable enough to have to use a borrowed gun to compete with. This is a copy of the email I sent to S&W after getting the gun back (in quotations).

"A few weeks ago I stepped up to what I thought was the gold standard in .22 target pistols, the model 41 from the Performance Center. I was very disappointed with the gun especially after using my dealer's older 41. We finally decided to send it back for service and you can look up what they had to do by my serial number (UDL4452). What I still can't understand is how that gun ever left the factory - especially from the Performance Center.

The gun came back the other day and I wish the story ended there but it doesn't. There was a magazine stuck half way in that we had to use a screwdriver as a prybar to extract it from the gun. The dealer and I looked it over thinking that it was the wrong mag but it wasn't. After careful inspection, we discovered that the floor plate was hanging out the back by a good 1/16" preventing it from fitting in the gun - but that is the way it was left and shipped back to the dealer and me.

I can't begin to tell you how disappointed I am with not only the quality of the gun I bought but with the lack of care that the service department gave me. How could whoever completed the repair try to load a defective magazine in this gun.

I spent about $1250.00 for this gun and was planning on buying a 9mm to compete with. I have owned many Smiths in the past including a Doug Koenig .45 that I used in IDPA but after my current experience with Smith & Wesson I am now considering a different maker, possibly H&K or Sig."


I received a ticket number by email letting me know that they received my email and that they will respond in 2 to 3 days. 2 weeks go by and no response so I sent off another email referencing the first and in return I got another tracking number. As of this dated I have yet to hear from S&W.

If this is what is to be expected from Smith, it may be the last gun I buy from them. There is an old adage that says If you receive good service you will tell 10 people but if you receive poor service, you will tell 30.

BTW they had to machine the bolt face and feed ramp, replace the extractor, and replace another part that I have no idea what it was.
 
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customer service

Along with you, I believe good, consistent customer service is the keystone of any successful business. Admittedly, S&W is not the only company with customer service problems. Like Lily Tomlin's character "Ernestine" the telephone operator once said......."We don't have to care, we're the phone company."
Have you ever been "talked down to" over the phone by a customer service rep?

Overall, I would say my dealings with them have been positive. My one bad "repair" experience was several years ago when I returned a Model 41 two times for repair of feeding and extraction issues. The gun never functioned correctly, and the gun owner was never satisfied. This experience turned a loyal S&W customer into the biggesst billboard against the company in my area.

I'm not sure exactly what the problem is....usually, the service contact is the stellar, "bend over backwards" type. Other times, it's a horror story, dealing with rude, terse people on the phone.....with guns coming back in worse condition than when they went in. Seems to depend on who at S&W handles the contact, and who actually performs the work.

I think they could easily weed out the problem employees by requiring them to add their name to each of their repair tickets, and letting them resolve the problems they create when the guns get returned, on their own time. This would immediately identify exactly who the problem employees are. If this doesn't work at changing their heart for the work....they should be terminated.
 
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I think part of the problem is they used to have guys who specialized in things. My Uncle was a polisher, it was a art a good polisher made the final finish perfect.

When they went to bead blasting that was the end of an art. Same goes for bluing another reason why they don't do high gloss blue like they used to.

There was a guy who specialized in Model 41's he had worked on my guns. Through cutbacks years ago he was pushed to answering phones, just plain stupid. A skilled craftsman answering phones? Now he has retired and they probably replaced him with a less skilled person who didn't benefit from being trained by the right person.

They also hire a lot of temporary employees they use them when sales are up and let them go when they are down. Less pay and benefits and people who are not skilled and don't care. A perfect recipe for failure.

I say buy older used Smith's and you will be better off. Just my opinion and the way I feel.
 
I'm sure their QC will improve immensely when they launch the 4th G auto's. ;)

If they don't have it together by now,how will the launch of gun make a difference?

If they can't produce a gun from their Performance Center, what does that say about their standard line?
 
I have two S&W's right now a 1911 PC and a M&P CORE. Had a few revolvers years ago. I had trouble with the 1911 about the finish which they said was normal but to me it was poor workmanship. I did the fix myself which was a good thing after reading a few bad things on returns.
The two guns shoot great so I can't say anything bad about them......
 
I am sort of less than happy with the recent stuff from the Performance Center. Got a 945 years ago and great. In 2014 bought a Commander size 1911Sc. O.K. little pistol. When I compare it against my Colt WC Commander I bought in 2013 they are both worth about the $1.3K they cost but I thought the S&W Performance Center pistol would have been better.

 
It's not about the way they shoot, it's about QC and their service department.

My gun came back working fine but it NEVER should have left the factory in it's condition and subsequently from the service department.
 
The problem here is just plain poor management as well as short sighted management. There is no understanding that higher quality can lead to higher profit margins. Instead the current management is just abusing the good S&W name for short term gain. But this problem with quality control has been going on for a long time. I bought a new S&W revolver in 2001 that should never have left the factory. It went back 4 or 5 times and was never a quality product. It's been many years since I bought a new S&W handgun and looking at the current lineup I am not likely to buy one unless things change.

Bill
 
When I was a Harley Davidson mechanic and we got paid rate, any "come back" you had on a bike you just worked on, was yours to figure out what you did wrong or what went wrong. That is the only way to really learn from your mistakes. Nobody ever learns they are doing a crappy job if somebody else is always cleaning up their mess. Having them put their names on the ticket for a little accountability sounds like a great idea.
 
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The last and final straw. I was shooting the last 100round box of my CCI Minimags when I heard a thump on my shooting bench. The rear sight fell off the gun.

That was it. I put it up for sale and sold it withing the first 10 min.

I'm thinking of a Ruger Mark 3 Target Hunter 7" as a replacement.
 
Maybe I'm just old, but I've been buying and collecting guns since I was fourteen and have never had a problem with any of them. . .ever! I do not buy new handguns. I don't know why I would since I can just as easily buy an "old" Smith that I know will run forever. All these posts about what the new Smiths are like are very discouraging. I might actually have considered buying one. . .now I will not!!! Last thing I need in my life is a gun that doesn't work.
 
I am old and all this chatter about the PC's poor workmanship is surprising and sad. I bought my 41 and 52 used and have shot them for over 40 years. You bet the repair work (seldom) I had done to them was top notch, with fast turnaround if I told them I needed the gun for an upcoming match. At times they even had a rep at the regional and sectional matches.

No more daydreaming: Present day problems might be better handled if you sent your letters to the President/CEO of the company with a CC to the local newspaper. If he gets enough of them he just might stop listening to his bean counters and start thinking "long term" at least for a while.
To my way of thinking "free" warranty repair may not be worth the frustration. My solution is: Support your Local Gunsmith.
 
I guess myself and the company I keep are quite lucky. There are quite a few new guns among us including a few PC models and they're all exceptional.

In the past couple decades the only bad gun I've purchased new was an inexpensive airgun.

Better luck.
 
The last and final straw. I was shooting the last 100round box of my CCI Minimags when I heard a thump on my shooting bench. The rear sight fell off the gun.

That was it. I put it up for sale and sold it withing the first 10 min.

I'm thinking of a Ruger Mark 3 Target Hunter 7" as a replacement.


What was the definition of insanity, something about doing the same thing and expecting a different result?

The MK3 is a fine gun, but I'd suggest a MK2 if you really can't bring yourself to buy an older M41. I also suggest that you use the Minimags for plinking and get some SV for target work.

Good luck.
Jim
 
hey smith wesson is going to plastic guns what do you expect when they think those are better then sliced bread?
 
Solid Hit; You mentioned possibly moving to HK or Sig. Well, I belong to the Ruger, Glock, and Sig forums, and your sentiments are also reflected on those sites. I no longer own guns from Glock or Sig, but just like to read what's happening in the industry. I'm now concentrating on 1980 and older S&W revolvers and the old adage " they don't make 'em like they used to" has never been truer from what I've seen and read regarding all manufacturers. IMHO, an mint example of a pre-1990 41 would be the way to go. Just sayin' :)
 
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