Periodic 4046 FTE

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I acquired a 4046 about two months ago and I have an intermittent FTE problem with it. I will try to describe the problem as well as possible.

Every now and then the gun will fire, but the empty casing will not completely extract out of the chamber which causes the next round to jam up on the rear of the spent casing. To relieve the jam I have to lock the slide back, drop the magazine and pull the spent casing out.

This is the first and only type of jam I have ever had with any of my smith and wesson autos (5 of them). What is the culprit for these kind of jams? Where can I find the replacement parts if need be? And is this a repair that a technically savvy non gunsmith can perform themselves?

Thanks again in advance.

Vince
 
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FTE

You didn't specify whether you are using factory or re-loaded ammunition. Improperly sized or damaged casings can be problematic.
Check the integrity of the hook (damage?) on the extractor with a magnifier, check for proper extractor spring tension, and for dirt or debris either in the chamber itself or under/around the extractor body or hook.
If you have another .40 caliber S&W auto, compare the tension on the extractor in the other model, with the offending one.
If you determine the extractor or spring is the problem, new extractors and springs may be available from the factory......or from one of the parts vendors like Numrich, Midway, etc.
If the gun is clean, properly lubricated and within specifications parts wise, I would suspect the ammo.
 
Armorer, thank you very much for the guidance. After evaluating the extractor and spring compared to my 4013TSW, it is obvious that both are on their last leg.

I'm sure the 4046 has had many more rounds downrange compared to the 4013. Here's a picture for some reference to confirm my evaluation. The 4046 is obviously the slide on the bottom.



I will be ordering a new extractor and extractor spring tomorrow. Hopefully the replacement will not be too difficult.

Thanks

Vince
 
FTE issues

Order a new pin or two when you order the other parts. You may be able to use the existing pin, but I've found a couple of broken pins among the ones I've replaced. Take the time to clean out the extractor cutaway recess while you have the extractor out. Remember also, this may be a spring issue, so you may be able to use the old extractor with a new spring and pin. If you are installing a new extractor, before installing the new spring and pin, make sure to check the extractor body itself to see that it fits into the slot freely, and is not dragging or binding.
Also, make sure you drive the old pin out from top to bottom, and when you install the new pin, it should go in flush with the surface of the interior of the slide. In other words, don't let any part of the bottom of the pin protrude into the interior of the slide rail area.
The new extractors are not "generic" in the sense that they are not always "drop in" replacements, and they sometimes require fitting......particularly the gauge between the extractor hook and the breechface. Hopefully, if you have to use a new one, it will drop right in and work properly without any modification. Numrich has these parts in stock, according to their website.
 
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I had a problem with my 4506 not extracting and found a chipped extractor to be the problem. Couldn't find any in the aftermarket so called S&W for the part. No go, the factory will not sell an extractor for this model, must be a factory fit. Tried a local gunsmith, he replaces extractors in S&W with no problem getting parts from factory. Not this one. He ended up sending it to S&W for the fit. Runs fine now and my gunsmith charged me IIRC $14.00 for the transaction. Jim.
 
Checking the extractor tension requires the use of a force dial gauge (with appropriate hook attachment to use on extractor hook). The tension on the .40/10 guns is listed as being within 4-8 lbs, but that's just the bench testing.

Getting any particular .40 to feed & extract properly might require some fine tuning, meaning running the tension more at the lower or higher end of the recommended range, or filing the extractor so it "blocks" tighter or looser.

The dimension of the hook edge to the opposite breech face shoulder is checked using a Go/No-Go bar (block) gauge. Armorers also used to use a Go/No-Go "flag" gauge, to check the dimension between the inside of the hook and the breech face behind it, but as time passed the company decided we didn't really need that tool.

Also, a trick I learned from a much more experienced armorer some years ago, who worked for an agency who issued older 4006's and newer 4006TSW's, was that when fitting the extractors for the .40's it was sometimes best to file the extractor's adjustment pad so the Go end of the gauge fit tightly, instead of even a little bit loosely. It did solve an issue with a 4006 that was exhibiting some FTE's even with a new extractor and spring. (We're talking about the difference of a single file stroke, at times.)

I also had a new production 4006TSW that was exhibiting FTE's with duty ammo. When I pulled the gun and got out the force dial gauge I discovered the extractor tension was too light, falling about half a pound below the recommended range.

I replaced the stock spring with a new "standard" extractor spring of the same tension (thinking the original spring might just have been bad), and got the same too-light tension reading on the force dial gauge. Apparently, the spring hole was slightly "off" on the generous end of the tolerance range (too deep?) The next heaviest spring was tried, which put the tension up within the desired range, and the gun ran as designed and expected. ;)

I had a Value Line 411 brought to me that had a chipped extractor and a light spring tension. (I suspected someone had tried to "polish" it and had damaged the hook.) It had a color-coded extractor spring I'd not seen, so I called the factory. They asked for the serial number (?), explaining that the slide mass for that particular model had been changed during a run of those older guns, and based upon the serial number they told me which spring that particular .40 would probably require. That was the only extractor spring I didn't have in my parts drawer, of course, so I ordered a couple of them. (While waiting for the springs to arrive I fitted a new extractor and tried some of my other springs, none of which got the gun extracting normally, so they were obviously right about using the specific spring for that gun.) The "stock" spring they recommended for that particular .40, with the newly fitted extractor, got the gun back up & running.

Bottom line? Sometimes even with the right tools and parts the hard-recoiling .40's can be a bit of a balancing act when it comes to fitting an extractor (filing the adjustment pad) and selecting the right spring needed for that particular gun.

If you look at the parts lists for the different .40's (older 3rd gen and then the TSW's) you'll see that some guns have a couple of extractor springs, and the TSW's can have 3 springs listed. I've been told that the first spring listed is the standard production spring, but the next 1-2 springs might be required for any particular gun. Also, sometimes changing ammo (going from 180gr loads to some of the harder recoiling 155gr loads, for example) might require a change in extractor tension. Depends.

Then, they've also revised the .40 extractor over the years. Looking at them in 3rd gen guns of different production vintage might fool someone into thinking something's "wrong" with an extractor because of the shape of the hook and how it may appear compared to one of a different vintage. The current extractors have a very nicely beveled angle underneath the hook. This pic shows how the hook is beveled. (This is also the extractor used in the standard SW1911's, BTW.)


I wouldn't bother replacing an older designed extractor with a new one as long as a particular gun was running normally. If it works, it works.

It's pretty uncommon to find an extractor that "drops in" when you're talking about 3rd gen guns. The extractors were made to have extra metal at the adjustment pad and have to be filed and fitted. The older slides had looser tolerances in the extractor recess, so the extra "meat" on the adjustment pad gave an armorer more room for fitting an extractor among guns with older tolerances.

In my last 3rd gen pistol armorer recert we had a roomful of armorers using newer production 5906TSW's and new parts. In ONE of the guns (mine) a new extractor dropped in and gauged within proper tolerance. The instructor said he'd seen that happen a couple times in recent classes, and opined the newer tolerances in the latest guns and parts was responsible. Said it was still an unusual thing to see happen, and extractors still typically required filing & gauging.

In my previous classes over the years the extractors had always required anywhere from a little to a lot of filing in order to get them to fit in guns within normal spec. Fitting extractors isn't often a "favorite" activity of the average armorer, and some would rather leave it to other armorers or the factory.
 
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