Photo Request: Two Colts, One S&W

[Texas Star]

An acquaintance writes mystery books set in 1920 Kenya. She asks me occasionally for gun advce, and I suggested that one character use a Colt New Service revolver, probably in .45 Colt. The caliber and model were popular in the British colonies then, so ammo should be available.

The primary alternative, I think, would be the Colt M-1911, as he was a US pilot in WW I, and might well have one. Sportsmen then also often used automatic pistols because it was felt that the jacketed bullets would penetrate better in large animals, in an emergency situation, where the handgun might have to be used on a dangerous animal.

She wants to see the guns that might be chosen.

Will someone post photos of the Colt New Service with 5.5-inch barrel, and of the M-1911?

Also, of the Second Model Hand Ejector S&W, with five-inch bbl.? A really sharp photo of a clean M-1917 Smith should also give her a good idea of what that gun would look like. But I'm unsure whether .44 Special ammo would be available there, then. .44/40 might actually be more common, as some Winchester rifles in that caliber were probably present.

It's hard to find really sharp photos of these on the Net when one wants. Be nice if the New Service had ivory grips, although checkered walnut will work, too. I already sent her the movie gun database link on the New Service, but all pictured there have the hard rubber grips. I think this particular character would want nicer grips.

Thanks. And I bet that a lot of others here will like those pics, too!

Oh: I'd probably send her the photos, as she'd have trouble finding this thread. May I send her your images? No commercial use will be made of them. She just wants to see what the guns look like. I'll explain how they work, ballistics, etc.

T-Star

 

[Onomea]

T-Star, I am sorry that I do not have the pictures you request, but I would like to know your acquaintence's name, or the name she writes under.

I like mysteries and I like pre-WWII Kenya stuff, Happy Valley (e.g., James Fox’s White Mischief, The Murder of Lord Erroll or the Heat of the Sun TV programs with Trevor Eve as the police detective sent out to Nairobi.

I think Lord Erroll was shot with a M&P, tho I may recollect wrong. That was in 1941.

 

[Grayfox]

Not the best pictures, but it'll give you the general idea.

Top: Model 1917 Commercial
Bottom: 2nd Model .44 HE 5"

Btw: the grips in these pictures are wrong. But its the only one I currently have.

 

[GatorFarmer]

Probably as good a view of any of a vintage 1911 can be approximated by looking at the recent Colt WW1 reissue. Oh, it isn't exact by any means, but unless someone is really into guns, it'll do for the general feel. Colt's World War I U.S. Army Replica shows it off, click on the pictures for a bigger view.

I'd think that guns in .455 Eley might have been more common in a British colony than ones in .45 Colt. I'd also think that domestic production guns from England would be more common than Colts and Smith and Wessons. It was a colony after all, and colonies were meant to support the products of the mother country, not imports.

The .44 special was available by the 1920s. Whether it was available in Kenya or not, I have no idea.

If you go to Google Images, and type in Colt New Service, numerous photos pop up. Hard rubber grips would have been period correct. Then, as now, many people actually using the guns liked rubber grips.

 

[digi-shots]

Here are a couple of pics...

Used by British Commonweath: Webley in .455 cal.(below)

S&W model 1917 in .45 ACP (below)

Colt model 1911 in .45 ACP (below)

As much as I like Smith & Wesson's.... I think I'd go with the Webley, it is impressive!

Hope this helps!

 

[s&wchad]

Colt New Service .45 Colt

S&W US Model 1917 Revolver .45acp

Colt US Model 1917 Revolver .45acp

 

[feralmerril]

Gator farmer is right. The caliber recomended should be .455 .

 

[Texas Star]

T-Star, I am sorry that I do not have the pictures you request, but I would like to know your acquaintence's name, or the name she writes under.

I like mysteries and I like pre-WWII Kenya stuff, Happy Valley (e.g., James Fox’s White Mischief, The Murder of Lord Erroll or the Heat of the Sun TV programs with Trevor Eve as the police detective sent out to Nairobi.

I think Lord Erroll was shot with a M&P, tho I may recollect wrong. That was in 1941.

I saw those shows, and read the book to, "White Mischief", also. I recall that one fellow committed suicide with a Colt Police Positive or Pocket Positive in one those shows starring Trevor Eve. I also read that series of novels. Dame Diana Rigg introduced that series on PBS. I'm very pleased to have filmed,"Heat of the Sun" and one other episode.

To answer your question, I'll give the link to Suzanne Arruda's site, designed by her husband, Joe. The Arrudas are college professors, in addition to her writing. www.suzannearruda.com Her next title is, "Treasure of the Golden Cheetah", which is due for release on Sept. 1. I've read a preproduction copy, and like it. I believe the next book will be ready in about six months. She's very busy with it just now.

American guns were actually quite popular in the British colonies. I read a 1930's tale (true) in which a Colt .45 New Service was used by a sloth bear hunter in India, as a backup. At one time, both .44/40 and .45 Colt ammo was available from Stores, as so many British officers used those guns. They were supposed to have had .455's, but the rule seems to have been laxly enforced. Vincent Fosbery, VC, who later invented a true automatic revolver, commented that the best handgun "stopper" that he saw used on the Northwest Frontier of India, was the Colt in .44/40. Lt. Col. Fosbery was awarded his Victoria Cross for an action in Khandahar, Afghanistan. This present war isn't the first in which British troops were there. They just didn't have Lara Logan to interview them for CBS News... By the way, Lara is originally South African, if you've wondered about her accent on TV.

When he went to the trenches after being deposed at the Admiralty in 1916, Churchill armed himself with a Colt M-1911 in .45 ACP, not in .455 Auto. Man at Arms ran quite a good feature on that gun some years ago. The Churchill family still owns it, unless the socialists stole it from them after the nasty 1997 gun act.

Many hunting and defense calibers would be available in Nairobi in 1920. The German calibers would be in short supply, I suspect, for several years. Maybe...war trophies would probably cause .30 Mauser and 9mm Luger to be stocked. Many British officers before the war, in fact, used .30 Mauser pistols. Churchill had one at Omdurman. The Boers took it when he was captured in the Boer War of 1899-1902.

Colt had a London agency from 1851, and for about a decade, actually manufactured guns in Britain. Colt sales were always strong in the UK. I've seen quite a few Colts inscribed with the original owner's name, sometimes, their regiments. And they sold well to private citizens.

Until this latest book, Mrs. Arruda's heroine, Jade del Cameron, used a Winchester 94 in some obscure .32 caliber. (Not .32 Special.) After we met at a book signing earlier this year and began to correspond, I suggested that Jade have a .275 Rigby. Her friend Lord Avery Dunbury might well have given her one. Avery could certainly afford it, and his wife Beverly is Jade's best friend, who drove ambulances with her in the war. But the author wanted her to have a Winchester, partly to emphasize her being American, and perhaps because she likes the Winchester image. We compromised on a M-95 in .303, and it appears in, "Treasure of the Golden Cheetah". (I avoided the .405 because it is too specialized for a general use rifle, and because the recoil would affect Jade too much. It would also be a bit trite, I thought. Too often, people think of the M-95 only in .405.)

I do know that the .405 got around in Africa and in India. Kenneth Anderson used his .405 to shoot most of the man-eating cats that he killed in India. One of his titles is, "The Black Panther of Savanipalli." (sp?) If anyone wants to try to locate a copy, I'll get mine out and be sure of the spelling. The book dealers who advertise in the back of, "Sporting Classics" often have a few copies. But if you can find them on the Net, classic hunting books are often much cheaper than if one buys them from specialty dealers.

The Colt .32 automatic was also well known in the UK and its colonies. Remember the 1937 film, "Drums"? The officer's wife used her Colt .32 auto against the Muslim rebels. That is a good film, if you can rent a copy. In Dallas, Premiere Video on Mockingbird, just blocks from Central Distressway has a copy for rental.

I've read a lot of books by men in colonial Africa, and by no means were their arms limited to British calibers and makes. I fact, only the really affluent used guns by the famous London houses, like H&H, Purdey, Rigby, et al. Most ordinary people had Mausers, BSA rifles, or American guns.
Finn Aagard said that in the '30's, his father relied on a 7X57mm for everything. I think it was a Mauser-made sporter. Mannlicher-Schoenauer rifles were also well represented.

I think you will like Suzanne Arruda's mysteries, in which she and pals manage to foil slavers, ivory poachers, and gun runners. Oh: Jade also has a knife made for her by a talented foreman on her father's ranch. (He is a blacksmith.) The description is rather vague, so I just imagine it as a copy of the Marble's Ideal. That would be the best known sheath knife then, and it has a five-inch blade. Jade usually wears it in a boot top, as Veronica Layton wore her main knife on later seasons of. "The Lost World." (But Jade wears trousers, not Veronica's hot outfit. )

Many libraries have the Jade del Cameron series. I think men will usually enjoy it, and may identify with the male characters. But your ladies may LOVE this series.

By the way, Jade's pet cheetah, Biscuit, appears in the new book, but isn't the Golden Cheetah of the title.

T-Star

 

[Texas Star]

Thanks for the photos, everyone.

 

[bmcgilvray]

The largest and the smallest in the Colt double action revolver line-up in the first decade of the 20th century, a New Service Model 1909 .45 Colt (with 5 1/2-inch barrel) and it's little brother a Colt New Pocket transition .32 Long Colt from 1905.

A pair of '17 .45 revolvers, Colt and Smith & Wesson.

 

[Onomea]

Thanks, T-Star. I appreciate the link. I'll check out Suzanne Arruda's books. I normally shy away from mysteries with female heroines, but this Jade del Cameron might just be an exception.

 

[Texas Star]

Thanks, T-Star. I appreciate the link. I'll check out Suzanne Arruda's books. I normally shy away from mysteries with female heroines, but this Jade del Cameron might just be an exception.

Jade is pretty okay, but my favorite heroine was Modesty Blaise. Search her, and you'll find lots of stuff. She has an almost cult-like fan group. Alas, the author quit writing the books in 1996, with The Cobra Trap being the last. Modesty knew her guns, but I think from some content that the author was reading Guns & Ammo. He's a former British Army sergeant, but I don't think he was deeply into firearms. Still, he nearly always made good choices. But he was wise to replace her .32 Colt with a Star PD later in the series. Modesty's preferred heavier handgun was the S&W M-57 .41 Magnum.

Modesty also ran as a comic strip in about 50 countries, and bound comics are available. In the app. 40- year span of the series, several artists drew Modesty. The books are superb. The several movies and one TV series largely suck. If you can find the bound comics, they're very good, as comic strips go.

I also like Robert B.Parker's Sunny Randall series, and J T Ellison's Lt. on the Nashville police force is a good new heroine. I just read the first in the series, "All the Pretty Girls". Well, actually, I'm near the last of it. The gun wasn't mentioned, but J.T. Ellison told me that her heroine has a .40 Glock, standard in Nashville, and has other, off-duty guns in her home locker. She dates an FBI agent who, I presume, also uses a Glock. (T-Star holds his nose...Glocks stink!) She promised to consider mentioning SIG's. We'll see.

The author is an Italian-American who mentions wines, and does so also in a newspaper or blog column. Alas, she seems to go for cheap Italian ones, despite having toured Napa Valley with her husband. I steered her toward Chilean reds, if she wants value for money. Don't know how much notice she'll take, but she writes pretty well, although not as well as Suzanne Arruda does. But JT has grittier plots.

If you want SUPERB language skills and thoroughly plausible plots and characters, as well as marvelous descriptive skills, try David L. Lindsey's books. You can read sample chapters on his site, which hasn't been updated in several years. He may be living off the sales of his books. ?? See also his foreign covers. A real treat! www.davidlindsey.com See especially, A Cold Mind, Spiral, and Mercy. Requiem For a Glass Heart is also outstanding. The author told me that he finds writing hard, and good writing is. (I'm well into my first novel, as is my daughter, on hers. I also write some fan fiction, which gave me a feel for fiction. It is quite different from writing articles, of which I have some 3500 in print. I can tell you, David Lindsey is the consummate wordsmith, and shows great compassion for even flawed persons in his stories. His Sgt. Stuart Haydon has a 9mm Beretta. His female character, Carmen Palma, used a SIG 9mm.

You can get, "Mercy" on film, but it stars Ellen Barkin, whom I detest. Peta Wilson as Vickie Kittrie, is excellent, though. Barkin looks NOTHING like the book heroine, Carmen Palma. And the overall tone of the film, made in Canada, not in Houston, TX, is washed out, or something. It seems too stark. It remains a good movie, but is only a shadow of the polished, literate book! (The movie is still well worth watching.)

John Sandford's Lucas Davenport is probably my favorite current mystery sleuth, or Robert B. Parker's Spenser, although I could do without his psychobabble and his Dr. Silverman and Spenser's black thug sidekick.

Have you tried these authors?

T-Star
P.S. "female heroines" is redundant. Sorry: couldn't resist. It's easy to make that mistake. I've caught myself doing it.

 

[digi-shots]

Great post.... thanks for the list of books & authors!

If you're looking for another series, have you tried the Elizabeth Peters series.... another "female heroine" - Amelia Peabody. One of her favorite sidearms was a S&W Ladysmith... the original "Ladysmith". The series takes place in the late 1890's to early 1920's in Egypt. She and her future husband are archaeologists.

 

[Texas Star]

Great post.... thanks for the list of books & authors!

If you're looking for another series, have you tried the Elizabeth Peters series.... another "female heroine" - Amelia Peabody. One of her favorite sidearms was a S&W Ladysmith... the original "Ladysmith". The series takes place in the late 1890's to early 1920's in Egypt. She and her future husband are archaeologists.

Linda-

I've seen those, but not read one.On your recommendation, I'll try one. Didn't know that she used a gun!

I have read the other ancient Egyptian series about Lord Meren, but can't recall the author. He was the Eyes and Ears of Pharoah, sort of the chief detective and judge of the realm. Carried a dagger, firearms being FAR in the future.
I'm sort of an ancient Egyptian buff, so will look for the books.

I just started a separate topic on Modesty Blaise and other heroines. I'm about to post some useful links there, one to see my favorite Lost World heroines in a video made at my request by a Dutch fan of that show. You nay want to look for that thread.

T-Star

 

[Onomea]

I've read most of Robert B. Parker's Spenser series, but haven't read the Sonny Randall ones. (I think reading a Spenser book is sorta like drinking a milkshake. It feels good going down, which is why I enjoy them, but there isn't a whole lot to it. No need to spend any time thinking about what it might mean! Occasionally I'll borrow or buy a Spenser novel and get about 20 pages into it and realize I've already read it...) I do like his Jessie Stone character, and think that Tom Selleck does a good job in the made-for-TV movies of that series.

And I've read John Sandford's Lucas Davenport series, tho not all of them, I don't think. Pretty good stuff.

Thinking about it, I think my favorite detective series, though, is by Tony Hillerman. Navajo policeman stories. I like his evocation of the environment, and culture, of the Navajo reservation. I've driven through there. It is immense. There is something that I find very relaxing in reading about that environment...

Thanks for the tip on David L. Lindsey, too. He sounds pretty good.

Female heroines! Ah well. Better than a male heroines, I s'pose.

Ya know, when I was a kid I read all of Nancy Drew, and heck, I even read Cherry Aimes, though that was probably more in desperation for something to read than true interest. (Cherry Aimes was series, about a nurse, that I borrowed from my sister after I read all of her Nancy Drew books, my own Hardy Boys long since devoured.) But it is pretty rare that I have I deliberately engaged with literary heroines as an adult. I suppose it has to do with wanting to identify with the protagonist, tho I don't really know why.

I did, come to think of it, enjoy a couple of novels by a husband and wife team, David & Aimee Thurlo, who write about a Navajo policewoman, Ella Clah, in sort of a Tony Hillerman way. (Hillerman is a lot better tho.) Ran across their books in the public library in Kailua, Hawaii, a couple of summers ago. I think public libraries are great.

My normal way of finding out about mystery writers is to browse the shelves at libraries or airport bookstores, which is hit or miss unless you find an author that you've already read and liked, or a book that you've read a review of, so getting some tips is appreciated. Thanks!

Have you read Ian Rankin? He writes a series about a police detective in Edinborough that is quite good.

Or James Lee Burke's Dave Robicheaux series?

 

[Texas Star]

I've read, I think, one Dave Robicheaux book. The series just didn't appeal. Not seen Rankin's work, although I shy away from British mysteries, because their cops mostly don't carry guns, and sometimes they say bad things about them, I suspect.

I read most, maybe all, of the late Tony Hillerman's books. I liked his rendering of that vast country and the native superstitions. Wish that he'd described the uniforms, cars, and guns of the Navaho Tribal Police. I thought that Jim Chee needed to find himself. He was definitely cut out to be a shaman, not a cop. The older retired Lt. was more mature and stable.Can't think of his name offhand. Aha! Joe Leaphorn.

I read the Kenya colonial police novels from which the BBC/PBS series starring Trevor Eve were based. Set in the 1930's, they aren't bad, although a little too PC in places. "Heat of the Sun" is one, and" The Sport of Kings" is, I think, another. The hero's deputy was a crack shot, and I liked that. Pretty sharp guy, overall, too, as was the inspector. Their stuffy boss was a jerk, somewhat stereotypical. I liked the girfriend, although I wish the actress playing her was hotter.

Just finished J.T. Ellison's first novel, "All the Pretty Girls". The author is a woman living in Nashville, and writes about a female detective (Lt.) and her FBI boyfriend. She has good plotting ability, although her books seem average in some ways, brighter in inspired passages. I think she'll get better. Needs to watch using commas where she needs semicolons. Worth a look. She answered a letter from me cheerfully, and I think she'll do well.

I read Jack Higgins's books, too, and Stephen Coonts's, but they're more thrillers than mysteries.

I also like Wilbur Smith's work, although it can be spotty. His current book, "Assegai", is good, although I wonder whether one character could have used a 9.3X72mm chambering in a Mannlicher-Schoenauer. And the hero was far too cozy with the Masai for my taste. He made it seem fairly plausible, though, if pretty PC.

Do check David Lindsey's site and click on the sample chapters. I think you'll be impressed. Libraries usually have his books.

John Sandford also has another character, Virgil Flowers. He's a state cop who works for Lucas Davenport, but the books mostly have Davenport appear only occasionally, monitoring his assignments, etc. Flowers is sort of a rustic laid-back rebel, but good. Interestingly, he writes on the side for outdoor magazines. Sandford is a deer hunter, and knows something about guns. He's on target more than most mystery writers.

T-Star