PICS aka Pennsylvania Instant Check System

[PA Reb]

Not wishing to infringe upon other posters threads, several people have asked me in those threads what I was talking about when I mentioned instant background checks here in PA. Me not realizing that this wasn't the norm across the country made me wonder why people can't understand what I meant when mentioning this law. This link PSP from the PA. State Police website quickly explains what the law says and what we have to do here in PA. to purchase a handgun.

Here's a question asked on another website dealing with the PA law;
Q - Do I have to register my firearms in PA?
A - "No, in fact in Pennsylvania it is actually illegal for any government or police agency to keep a registry of firearms per 18 Pa.C.S. § 6111.4 (Registration of firearms). If you legally possess bring your firearms into the Pennsylvania or come into possession of the firearms legally, no further action is required.
It should be noted however that all transfers of handguns in Pennsylvania are required to go through the Pennsylvania Instant Check System (PICS) and as such the Pennsylvania State Police keep a "Sales Database" of all handguns purchased within the Commonwealth. While almost any casual observer can see that this database clearly violates the spirit of 18 Pa.C.S. § 6111.4 (Registration of firearms), in the Pennsylvania Supreme Court agreed with the Pennsylvania State Police that because the database is not a complete record of all handgun ownership (as people bringing handguns into the state do not have to register them), it does not."

So you see my friends, ANY governing agency can "endrun" ANY law and in the end come up with what they wanted in the first place. Gun enthusiasts in other states probably can't phathom all this just as I was never able to fully realize the laws are much different in other states. There were threads where I stated I never had a problem with this instant check and by that I meant I was never denied a purchase. I do now and always have had a problem with what this law is really all about - the government keeping records on who owns what. I hope this post clears the air for those who live in other states and don't have to deal with such laws YET!

 

[tops]

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So you see my friends, ANY governing agency can "endrun" ANY law and in the end come up with what they wanted in the first place. Gun enthusiasts in other states probably can't phathom all this just as I was never able to fully realize the laws are much different in other states. There were threads where I stated I never had a problem with this instant check and by that I meant I was never denied a purchase. I do now and always have had a problem with what this law is really all about - the government keeping records on who owns what. I hope this post clears the air for those who live in other states and don't have to deal with such laws YET![/FONT]

A person always has to read between the lines and then they will understand how the law will really work. The mental health part of the proposed new law can really be abused as any medicine can alter a person. Going through another background check and all the hoops when a persons gun has been "seized". Checking your gun at a traffic stop while they talk to you, check to see if it is stolen, etc. could be counted as "seized".
Never agree to any new laws or restrictions of any kind. Larry

 

[mkk41]

Even though they admit the database is incomplete , I know of several people with PA-LTCF , who went thru DUI check-points , or in the course of traffic stops , told the officer that they were carrying* , the officer 'ran' the serial numbers , and if it came back NO RECORD , they had their guns confiscated till they could prove ownership. If it came back to another PA resident , ya had some explaining to do. And if it was transferred , and the transferring FFL is out of business , you're most likely outta luck!

* of course there is no duty to inform a LEO you are carrying unless they ask. And most do. Especially if ya have an NRA sticker on your vehicle.

 

[PA Reb]

Even though they admit the database is incomplete , I know of several people with PA-LTCF , who went thru DUI check-points , or in the course of traffic stops , told the officer that they were carrying* , the officer 'ran' the serial numbers , and if it came back NO RECORD , they had their guns confiscated till they could prove ownership. If it came back to another PA resident , ya had some explaining to do. And if it was transferred , and the transferring FFL is out of business , you're most likely outta luck!

* of course there is no duty to inform a LEO you are carrying unless they ask. And most do. Especially if ya have an NRA sticker on your vehicle.

You are correct my fellow Commonwealthian! One time in a thread that was posted quite some time ago that concerned loaning a handgun to a friend, I made the statement that I would never do something like that here in PA. I tried to explain that if by chance the gun were used in some sort of crime and recovered by police, guess who's name its tied to in their data base?!?! I had a situation happen to me once where a gun (S&W model 29) that I had legally sold and transferred was used in an armed robbery and then recovered by the police while executing a search warrant. Even though things were done legally when I sold it, guess who's door they were pounding on the next day? Quite a few people from other states thought my cheese had slipped off my cracker and they couldn't understand that things are different here because of the way the instant check "really" works.

The moral of the stroy is this - We're sort of stuck here in PA but if I lived in another state without these laws, I'd fight very hard to keep them out. I fear however, its going to be a tough battle that will eventually become a reality for most if not all of them as well. Right now, I'm a little concerned about taking a gun of any kind through the state of New York while I travel to Maine to hunt!

 

[mkk41]

I've been in and out of the gun business since the early 80s. Back in the days when we had the little 5-copy 5x6 Application for and Record of Handgun Purchase forms that were supposed to be filled out and mailed to PA state police , local police and county sheriff (dealer kept one & buyer got one too). Some had to get lost in the mail. Some were probably never filed or transferred to computer.
There was never any confirmation from the 3 agencies of receiving them. If they did get an application for a prohibited person , the denying agency was supposed to call the dealer to stop the sale. I did have that happen a few times.

Some dealers I knew , including one I worked for , were just plain sloppy and careless with their paperwork. They were supposed to be sent in every day. Some days we did , some days we didn't. It saved a few cents on stamps!