PISTOL PRIMERS

[Hobie1]

Try "Googling"

Primers, the Sparkplug of Centerfire Cartridges

http://www.exteriorballistics.com/reloadbasics/primer.cfm

 

[fredj338]

Well--I am reading.
I do communicate so poorly.
I will post the question differently.
Without consideration of wanting to experiment I follow the manuals.
What, in the composition of a primer, is the primary concern for the bullet and powder being used---is it pressure or complete burning of the powder.
I understand that the faster powder is burned the more pressure it builds.
Dane Burns is a Gunsmith of some good reputation and considered, by most, to be a real authority on the 9x23 and the reloading and development of this cartridge.
I follow his advice.
The primer does more than ignite powder--it directs/starts a controlled explosion.
The critical issues--even the low powered .45--is what I am trying to understand.
I am not trying to re-invent a wheel.
Blessings

It's not that you can't use diff primers, it's just that you need to work your load up accordingly. Specialty roudns, like the 9x23, will have completely diff reloading criteria & may be completely safe using rifle primers. Stuffing them into 40 loads w/o working up could easily cause a KB. Again, there are hazards to using high powered rifle primers in pistol loads. Just because a gunsmith says this or that doesn't eman he is right. Many good gunsmith's know little about ballistics or reloading. The general rule of using components in printed data should be followed as closely as possible, especially when loading near the top end.

 

[williamlayton]

Hobie1
Thanks. Those links help a lot.
It makes no difference--and probably was developed for safety reasons--but I kept wondering why they were not all the same size--size wise, not power wise.
I was in the dark about powders and temperture to a large degree----but had a feel for different grain structure effecting/affecting burn rate.
I just was very curious what the primer did that could effect the burn rate other than amount of explosion.
It was all just a curious question.
Your links helped.
Blessings

 

[Hobie1]

Glad to help!

Have a good one.

Hobie

 

[Rule3]

I just found out something interesting relating to your question.

Just bought a new SW 632 in 327 Federal Magnum. In searching for load data and general information I found that Speer uses a Small Rifle Primer in their factory ammo with the 115 gr Gold Dot HP.

Special Note Regarding Primers: Due to the high operating pressures, factory ammo for the 327 Federal uses
small rifle primers to prevent primer flowback. These handloads were developed with Federal #205 small rifle
primers. However, small rifle magnum primers are neither required nor recommended.

http://www.speer-bullets.com/pdf/327_Federal_Magnum_GDHP_115gr_3988_DataFile.pdf

 

[SMSgt]

I use whatever type of primer the load data calls for, but not the particular brandname. I buy whatever brand the LCS has in stock and have never had any noticeable differences in round performance.

 

[williamlayton]

Again---I follow directions, but I wonder about things.
I found some good discussion on another board and some links with the conversation that have made a great deal of sense of this for me.
The discussion--I asked thse same question to start the thread--and some of the answers led to a link on primers and reloading rifles.
There seems to be the same parallels of the effect/affect of choices of primers in rifles as well as handguns.
The first is one can change primers and it may be beneficial when the discussion goes to bench rest shooting or developing the most accurate loading.
The idea of this is when you change to softer/larger/hotter primers it is necessary to soften the powder charge to accomodate higher pressures. This seems to be especially necessary when the powder chosen is case filling or close to it.
Case filling, as I have seen it suggested, is very good for developing accuracy.
Using a hotter powder and reducing load may reduce accuracy.
It makes sense to me that any primer---if it will fit in the charge hole of the case---can be changed to develope loads.
I am beginning to get the feel of the cause, affect, and reasoning for primers (criteria) and choices of primers.
Blessings

 

[Fishslayer]

I understand the competition guys were using small rifle primers during the Great Primer Drought.

Wish I'd had all this SPP .45ACP brass back then.

 

[jepp2]

As others have mentioned, I follow what the recipe lists as much as possible. I may substitute a Winchester spp for a CCI spp, but never at a max load. I also follow the primer Manufacturers recommendations such as Remington lists on their 1 1/2 primers of not using them in 357 mag, 357 sig, and 40 S&W even though they are similar to the primers used:

 

[OKFC05]

It makes sense to me that any primer---if it will fit in the charge hole of the case---can be changed to develope loads.
I am beginning to get the feel of the cause, affect, and reasoning for primers (criteria) and choices of primers.
Blessings

Before you decide you have it figured out and launch off into new experiments, may I offer a word of caution from the ol' physics prof.

Internal ballistics (what happens before the bullet leaves the barrel) is an incredibly complicated mess of partial differential equations that are non-linear (meaning they don't follow "common sense").
It is not only more complicated than someone who does not know calculus can understand, it is more complicated than he can imagine.

Therefore, it is prudent to use loading recipes that are published in at least 2 reputable manuals. Simply changing brands of primers on a medium load of the common powders is highly unlikely to cause a problem, but playing with specific powders operating near the limits of their stable range can generate surprises that "don't make sense" to the layman, and following recommendations of powder manufacturers may save you a gun, or injury.

 

[williamlayton]

OKFCO5
I totaly agree---I can't comprehend physics other than the Lord God made it to work as it does.
I also agree to use caution--in every adventure of life realize that there are reasons why you can't just say "hold my beer and watch this."
It is also true to follow directions--but--one can vary from these litigous direction using sound data.
I am not a hot rodder, bench rest or particularly a "Bubba"--so the fears some, appropriately, show and advise does not fall on deaf ears.
It is still an interesting look-see and coffee discussion topic.
Unlike some of you--I often wonder strange things and what if's.
Blessings

 

[OKFC05]

Unlike some of you--I often wonder strange things and what if's.

That's been both an interest and life's work for me. Some of the sensors I helped develop are out there looking at the earth now.

Good shooting!

 

[ohiococonut]

I suppose the criteria could be the standards set by saami. Ammo manufacturers must make every effort to stay within these boundaries as such. Knowing the limitations of firearms saami set the maximum pressure allowed for cartridges. The powder manufacturers test each cartridge using a specific bullet/powder/primer and monitor the chamber pressure. Knowing what each type of primers is able to withstand pressure wise they then "recommend" loads for us in manuals staying within safe limits.

I trust their judgment in knowing they have the resources to test each cartridge so that's my criteria.

It's like speeding down the highway over the speed limit. Sometimes you get caught, sometimes you don't, but there are always consequences.

 

[williamlayton]

There ARE limits.
Blessings

 

[jwh32]

Remington SP number 1&1/2 vs Remington number 5&1/2. when the latter came out a few years ago the hype on the street was a "magnum" primer although the mfgr didn't list it as such. I called remington

- answer the 5&1/2 was used by Rem for mfg 357 sig and 40 s&w cause of higher pressure (thicker cup only.) NOT Magnum)


john