Black_Sheep
Member
I keep hearing the term "Gun Show Loophole" used in gun control debates, what is it? Can someone please enlighten me?
Please explain "Gun Show Loophole"
- Thread starter Black_Sheep
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In Maryland and PA there is no loophole that i know of.
You still fill out the same paperwork and pass the same background checks as the store, if I buy a handgun in PA they still need to ship it to my home state FFL. If I was so inclined I could purchase magazines with a higher capacity than 20 rounds (MD State Limit).Maybe different in other states but I doubt it.
You still fill out the same paperwork and pass the same background checks as the store, if I buy a handgun in PA they still need to ship it to my home state FFL. If I was so inclined I could purchase magazines with a higher capacity than 20 rounds (MD State Limit).Maybe different in other states but I doubt it.
Here in IL, there is no loophole that I know of. You still have to have the background check, the same 4473, 72 hr wait for handgun, 24 hr wait for long gun, we even have FOID cards. If you don't have a FOID card, you can't even buy ammo. When you apply for the FOID, you get a background check, and when you buy a gun, you do it again.
I believe they are talking about private sales.They call it a gunshow loophole because it sounds sinister.
ColbyBruce
Member
Chief J. Lee Weems
by Chief J. Lee Weems
used with permission
"I do not intend for this piece to be a pathway into a debate on gun control or any of the applicable laws pertaining firearms sales. I am simply attempting to clarify the actual legal framework involved in a firearms sale. This piece is in response to a political commercial currently running on several of the cable news channels.
The commercial shows snippets of a terrorist asserting that people can simply walk into a gun show and buy fully automatic weapons without any sort of background check. The commercial is sponsored by a group of mayors, and it urges people to contact their congressmen concerning closing the so called gun show loophole.
The simple truth is that those claims are absolutely and totally false. Licensed firearms dealers must follow the exact same rules for selling a firearm at a gun show as they must follow when selling a firearm from their place of business. This is required by federal law, and such sales are regulated by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives more commonly known as the ATF. Additionally, state laws regulating the sale of firearms must be followed at a gun show just as they are at a retail firearms shop.
Furthermore, fully automatic and select-fire firearms are Class III items, and as such, they are even more stringently regulated by the federal government and other applicable state laws. In order to purchase a Class III item, a person must be approved by the ATF prior to buying the item, and each item purchased requires specific approval. Part of that approval process includes either the signature of the chief law enforcement officer of the locality where the purchaser resides or the establishment of a legal trust. The process is very time consuming, and each item also incurs an additional $200.00 federal tax. The purchase process of a Class III item is measured in months and not minutes. Private parties may not sell Class III items directly to another party. The transaction must go through a dealer approved by the federal government to handle Class III items.
The notion that someone can walk into a gun show and simply buy a fully automatic weapon is ludicrous to the point that the person espousing such is either ignorant on the law and is merely parroting remarks made by others, or the person is knowingly and intentionally perpetuating a lie.
Sales between private parties at gun shows are governed by the same state laws and applicable federal laws that apply to a private party transaction elsewhere in the respective state.
The gun show loophole does not exist.
Again, this piece was not intended as a pathway to a debate on gun control. Its intent is to provide accurate information. This piece is not an argument in favor of or against control measures."
by Chief J. Lee Weems
used with permission
"I do not intend for this piece to be a pathway into a debate on gun control or any of the applicable laws pertaining firearms sales. I am simply attempting to clarify the actual legal framework involved in a firearms sale. This piece is in response to a political commercial currently running on several of the cable news channels.
The commercial shows snippets of a terrorist asserting that people can simply walk into a gun show and buy fully automatic weapons without any sort of background check. The commercial is sponsored by a group of mayors, and it urges people to contact their congressmen concerning closing the so called gun show loophole.
The simple truth is that those claims are absolutely and totally false. Licensed firearms dealers must follow the exact same rules for selling a firearm at a gun show as they must follow when selling a firearm from their place of business. This is required by federal law, and such sales are regulated by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives more commonly known as the ATF. Additionally, state laws regulating the sale of firearms must be followed at a gun show just as they are at a retail firearms shop.
Furthermore, fully automatic and select-fire firearms are Class III items, and as such, they are even more stringently regulated by the federal government and other applicable state laws. In order to purchase a Class III item, a person must be approved by the ATF prior to buying the item, and each item purchased requires specific approval. Part of that approval process includes either the signature of the chief law enforcement officer of the locality where the purchaser resides or the establishment of a legal trust. The process is very time consuming, and each item also incurs an additional $200.00 federal tax. The purchase process of a Class III item is measured in months and not minutes. Private parties may not sell Class III items directly to another party. The transaction must go through a dealer approved by the federal government to handle Class III items.
The notion that someone can walk into a gun show and simply buy a fully automatic weapon is ludicrous to the point that the person espousing such is either ignorant on the law and is merely parroting remarks made by others, or the person is knowingly and intentionally perpetuating a lie.
Sales between private parties at gun shows are governed by the same state laws and applicable federal laws that apply to a private party transaction elsewhere in the respective state.
The gun show loophole does not exist.
Again, this piece was not intended as a pathway to a debate on gun control. Its intent is to provide accurate information. This piece is not an argument in favor of or against control measures."
Last edited by a moderator:
James&theGiant1911
Member
some private sellers will set up displays at shows, they can then claim this allotment is a private collection which then is not subject to a federal issued background check.
Aticus
Member
I think what they're talking about is: there is no prohibition in federal law for the INTRASTATE transfer of a firearm between the residents of the same state. There is a prohibition against the INTERSTATE transfer of firearms. There may be such a prohibition on the state level though there is none where I live. Also, to my knowledge there is no provision for a non-FFL to do a NICS check though there may be a way at the state level.
I'm not a lawyer, I don't play one on TV and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I have looked for this several times in the ATFE reg book.
I'm not a lawyer, I don't play one on TV and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I have looked for this several times in the ATFE reg book.
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Chief Weems is right on the money.
sigmaman
Member
There is nothing "illegal" about selling a couple of your own guns at a gun show. If you are "in the business" of selling guns, then you need to have an FFL. If you are continually set up at shows selling guns, you may be visited by the ATF. I know of a local incident where guys were selling guns at every local gun show over the course of a couple of years. I mean, TABLEFULLS of guns. Finally, ATF got them. But, as an ordinary citizen, your personal firearms are your personal property, like your lawnmower, chainsaw, etc. Obviously you can only legally sell guns to people of your own state, and as long as you have no reason to believe the person is prohibited from owning/posessing firearms (felon, etc.).
People in my area sell guns in the newspaper classifieds.
People in my area sell guns in the newspaper classifieds.
Closing the "gunshow loophole" is another way of saying that ALL firearms transactions should be required to go through the Federal background check. What remains unsaid about the alleged goal of closing the "gun show loophole" is that in order to verify that an individual is not buying or selling firearms without conducting a background check the Feds would need a list of what firearms you legally own. That is the real goal, IMHO.
Arik
Member
In Pa the "gun show loophole" is that if we both reside in Pa and neither of us are ffl holders i can sell you my rifle or shotgun (any long gun) without doing paper work. This is often done at gun shows because a lot of people are coming in to buy and sell. So if i see you walking through the parking lot or even inside with a rifle and a "for sale" sign i can just give you the money and take the long gun
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James&theGiant1911
Member
that would be very difficult unless they went door to door and inventoried the guns. I have several pieces well over 50 or 60 years old that were inherited. I doubt it would be possible for them to have knowledge on every firearm out there that is over 20 or 30 years old.
You can bet that if "they" close the loophole, there won't be anymore guns inherited.
Steve in Vermont
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Right now a FFL can call and get this information in minutes. I'm wondering if what the government will propose is a number (or a web site) where the average Joe can call and do the same thing (for a private sale). I haven't even begun to consider this, if it's possible, or would work. Any ideas?
accessbob
Member
In Oregon, you have to run the background check even if you are a private seller. You can't even do the transaction outside of the gun show and not even at another location after the gun show if the transaction started at the gun show. So, there isn't any gunshow loophole in Oregon. There are private face to face sales which are not required to run a background check and it would appear that The Big O is trying to make sure that is no longer available.
