Please help ID Gun

[opscwo]

Looks like a Pre model 10 to me, but has Hand ejector sights. Serial number makes the gun 1957-59 production, blued 5-inch barrel. Nothing on yoke but matching serial parts info. Caliber: 38 S&W cartridges. Steel frame and cylinder, not a victory model, maybe a later M&P. 4 screw model.

Thank you,

Dean

 

[murphydog]

The serial number is from 1959 and it appears to be a standard .38 Military & Police. The right barrel is clearly stamped ".38 S & W 'Special' CTG".

It should be stamped...MOD 10.

 

[Targets Guy]

I just picked up a Model 10 2" within 100 of your s/n. Mine shipped 9/59.

Yours looks to be in nice shape. Mine was stamped Model 10.

Not sure what you mean by "Hand ejector sights". Pre Model 10's and Model 10's have hand ejector sights. As do most any revolver made my S&W since 1899. Do you mean "fixed" sights as opposed to "adjustable" sights?

 

[opscwo]

Correction on sights.

Fixed sights as opposed to adjustable. The front blade does not look like a model 10 ramp, thus the question on sights. And not stamped on the yoke. Look at your front sight, this is very different.

 

[Hondo44]

I agree, it's a Model .38 M&P, but with fixed sights.

Hand Ejectors can have fixed sights, half target sights and full target sights.

 

[Muley Gil]

Early M&Ps had the half moon front sight. Later M&Ps had a ramp-like serrated front sight.

 

[Alk8944]

"Looks like a Pre model 10 to me, but has Hand ejector sights. Serial number makes the gun 1957-59 production, blued 5-inch barrel."

What do you mean by "Hand Ejector Sights"? All solid frame S&Ws are "Hand Ejectors", regardless of frame size, sight type, or caliber, and they all have sights of some type.


The "ramped" front sight change occurred in the early 1950s and is correct for your gun.


I don't see a photo showing the caliber! If it is a .38 Special it is a Model 10, marked or not. If it is really a .38 S&W then it is a Model 11. Either way there is no "pre anything" about it.

 

[Hondo44]

Looks like a Pre model 10 to me, but has Hand ejector sights. Serial number makes the gun 1957-59 production, blued 5-inch barrel. Nothing on yoke but matching serial parts info. Caliber: 38 S&W cartridges. Steel frame and cylinder, not a victory model, maybe a later M&P. 4 screw model.

Thank you,

Dean

Dean, correct, it's a Pre Model 10. It can't be a Model 10 retroactively before it was assigned the Model 10. But engineering design wise, it's the same as a Model 10.

The #s in the yoke are ASSEMBLY (factory work) #s: These multi-digit numbers of 3 to 5 digits, are on the yoke at the hinge, in the 'yoke cut' on frame opposite the yoke near the hinge (usually accompanied with a stamped inspector letter, but not always), and inside of the sideplate, for the pre war and early post war period thru ~early 1958.

By the end of 1957 model #s were assigned and stamped in the yoke cut. The serial # was soon after added in the 'yoke cut' as well and the assembly # moved to the left side of the grip frame parallel to the butt. Once the gun is shipped, the only use for the assembly # is to confirm the three parts it's stamped on, are original.

 

[Jim Watson]

In my youth, that would have been quickly identified as a "Four Screw".

 

[hkcavalier]

Pretty high S/N for a non-model marked gun, no?

 

[Hondo44]

Pretty high S/N for a non-model marked gun, no?

Yes. Another example proving the old S&W adage: "The main rule is, there are no rules."

 

[JP@AK]

Pretty high S/N for a non-model marked gun, no?

Not really. Model numbers start appearing in the C420xxx to C430xxx range. But not all of the units in that serial range were stamped as a MOD 10. We sometimes see even higher serial numbers than this on guns that aren't model marked.

The decision to use model numbers was made in the summer of 1957. But model marked guns didn't start shipping until 1958 and, as late as 1959, some were still coming out of the factory without being marked with the number. So, no matter when it was assembled or shipped in the 1958-59 period, if it doesn't have a model number in the yoke cut, it isn't a Model 10. By about 1960, they would all have had the model number, unless a mistake was made and the fitter failed to stamp the gun. In cases like that, it would be a Model 10 or 10-1 or 10-4, or what have you.

 

[Texas Star]

When did the screw in front of the trigger guard go away? That was my only reason for wondering if this is a Model 10.

The OP can't tell a .38 S&W from a .38 Special, either. Further confusion! Thought it might be a M-11.

I think all M-11's sent to South Africa had four inch barrels, but some orders for India may have had five-inch. Anyone know, for certain?

 

[Texas Star]

Fixed sights as opposed to adjustable. The front blade does not look like a model 10 ramp, thus the question on sights. And not stamped on the yoke. Look at your front sight, this is very different.

By the mid 1950's, snub M-10 and M-12 .38's had long ramp sights.

 

[opscwo]

Gentlemen, thank you for all the help. Jim, I will kook under the side plate to see if it pre or post-war.

Dean

 

[Absalom]

... So, no matter when it was assembled or shipped in the 1958-59 period, if it doesn't have a model number in the yoke cut, it isn't a Model 10...

Jack:

Roy might argue with you on that.

I've been on the look-out for other lettered examples, but it seems that from a certain time point a .38 M&P letters as a Model 10 regardless of the presence or absence of the model stamping.

I've shown C 412004 here before, a late shipper from Jan. 1959.

 

[Muley Gil]

Gentlemen, thank you for all the help. Jim, I will kook under the side plate to see if it pre or post-war.

Dean

If we are still talking about the revolver in your first post, it is post WW II, as it has the short action.