Please help me with this low number new model 3 ***"Roy Jinks letter update"

[acossey]

Does anybody know about the markings on the new model 3? This one has an asterik between the posts where the top latch is. There are matching two digit assembly numbers in three places. This is where it gets strange. The assembly numbers are 58 but the number stamped on the bottom is 498. You can tell the 5 has been restamped into the 9. Is it possible that the factory refinished the gun and changed the serial number. Are the assembly numbers usually only the last two digits or the whole number. I'm wondering if they added the 4 to the front also. Maybe the original number was only 58. The gun has a lanyard ring on the bottom of the grip with a 6-1/2" barrel old blueing turned brown.

 

[acossey]

Does anybody know about the markings on the new model 3? This one has an asterik between the posts where the top latch is. There are matching two digit assembly numbers in three places. This is where it gets strange. The assembly numbers are 58 but the number stamped on the bottom is 498. You can tell the 5 has been restamped into the 9. Is it possible that the factory refinished the gun and changed the serial number. Are the assembly numbers usually only the last two digits or the whole number. I'm wondering if they added the 4 to the front also. Maybe the original number was only 58. The gun has a lanyard ring on the bottom of the grip with a 6-1/2" barrel old blueing turned brown.

 

[cgt4570]

I'm pretty sure that's a 53, not a 58!

They didn't use assembly numbers back then. The true serial number should appear on the latch, on the barrel between the notches where the latch pivots, (as can be seen in your picture of the bottom of the latch), on the cylinder face, and on the butt. (the lanyard ring on mine is aftermarket, so the frame serial is completely obscured)

So, either your frame doesn't match everything else, or more likely, the number on the frame was re-stamped when the lanyard ring was added, and it's some kind of rack number. My guess is that it's aftermarket like mine is. Probably added by the dealer at the time of sale. In any case, serial number 53 is definitely an early one! It's definetly worth a factory letter! btw, mine is in the 13,000 range.

Chris

 

[acossey]

I thought the same thing about the 8 looking a lot like a three. Differnt camera angle makes it look more like an 8. The 58 stamped on the latch next to post is more clearly 58 and the one stamped inside the grip is 58. Does the astrick between the post represent a factory rework? There is also what looks like the letter p stamped in the bottom strap below the cylinder.

 

[acossey]

 

[opoefc]

I'd bounce this one off Jim Supica. None of those numbers I see in the pics are of the style or type that the factory would have been using. Are you sure this is a S&W and not a clone?

 

[panamajack310]

Hi, that is definately a number 53..the asterik is actually a star...Here is my questions? what caliber is it??? how long is the cylinder? and is there a serial number anywhere on the cylinder? is there any markings on the cylinder face? is there any writing on the top of the barrel???

 

[deadin]

How about a good picture of the markings on the barrel rib and cylinder face.

 

[acossey]

After looking at the 3 a little I agree. It does look like a three in all 3 places. Which means the number on the grip was changed from 453 to 498. The markings on the barrell are the two line smith and wesson patent dates. I will post more pictures tonight. I looked this up in a gun book a few years ago and if I remember right it may be part of a group sent to europe.

 

[acossey]

Cylinder length is 1-7/16" I can't find any more marks. Maybee I'm not looking in the right spots. I could swear that I saw a small anchor stamped somewhere here before. The man that owned this gun was a fairly seriuos collector of older guns. He or his brother were in WW2 and brought back lugers, mauser snipers rifles and other items. Maybee this came back with the others.

 

[acossey]

 

[Buffalo Nichols]

First off, the three digit number on the butt is not consistent in size or font with S&W factory markings I have seen. Usually when the factory installed a swivel or made a cut for a shoulder stock therefore defacing the original serial number, the frame was remarked on the side of the grip frame under the grip usually the left side. On yours the 9 looks like it is stamped over a 5 and the 8 over a 3.

It is probably chambered for 44 Russian. The predecessor of the 44 Special and slightly shorter.

The good news is the barrel markings appear to be correct.

The long ejector housing on your gun is correct for the early guns however, the radius portion below the housing should show an exposed section of shallow teeth to engage the toothed extractor, yours appears to have only one protrusion which would indicate the fingered style extractor. A better picture of that area would help.

The "P" at the front of the frame cylinder cut appears in that spot of all of my NM Number 3's, perhaps Jim Supica or Ed Cornett can illuminate us with the meaning.

I hope that helps and if you get the letter I currently have a data base of over 100 NM#3's listing serial Number, caliber barrel length , any info you can provide will be helpful.

If anyone needs a copy of the data base or wishes to contribute info contact me at this site or call my cell at 936-661-6156.

 

[acossey]

Here is close up of the extractor

 

[acossey]

Did they mark the assembly numbers with the complete serial number or only the last two digits. A three digit serial number seems right for the spacing that has been stamped in the grip. IF it was originaly a two digit gun wouldn't they have been centered? What is the star all about?
Thanks for all your help.

 

[panamajack310]

acossey,
I dont think you have a 2 didget gun I think that the 498 could be a number for maybe a company,law enforcement agency or foreign government....I will agree with Buffalo Nichols on what he wrote...

 

[feralmerril]

Just thought I would show my old relic american again here. It is #4730. I traded a old marlin mountie for it from a friend. Some old friends of his gave it to him. It was found in a old barn being tore down at a old stagecoach stop in montanna. Some old gunman must have cut the barrel. Who got the best of the trade?

 

[opoefc]

Accosey, Chris, Buffalo, etc. His Excellency, Judge Supica hasn't chipped in on this one yet, so I will stick my neck out and give my opinion: (excellent photos, BTW!) This a NM #3 S&W, serial number 53, that wound up in some foreign country's police or military armory and acquired the lanyard swivel, either there or it was added by a distributor at the request of their foreign customer. Addition of the swivel obliterated the # 53 on the butt and the current number there was added after market. All the aspects of the gun fit the early version of the NM#3s. The "P" in the cylinder cut is a fitters/assemblers mark. Possibly the asterisk is also, but I have not seen that on other guns, The absense of number 53 on the cylinder face is because (1) a worker forgot to stamp it, (2) it's there but too worn to see, or(3) the cylinder is a replacement. Take your pick. The caliber of the cylinder chambers could influence which of the three to choose, if it's not a .44Russian. I have encountered NM#3s with unnumbered cylinders and found they were conversions to a caliber, such as .44 Webley or Eley, by using an unnumbered replacement cylinder. This gun will probably letter as an 1878 shipment to M.W.Robinson and Robinson's records will show a shipment to a foreign destination. Thousands of these guns went overseas and had all kinds of changes aftermarket by various users, so that when a collector today gets one of these "mystery" guns it can be very interestive trying to explain what is now there. Ed.

 

[acossey]

Wow! very interesting. I have sent a letter to Mr Jinks and am really looking forward to his reply. All this info you guys have is amazing. The number on the cylinder face is where the cartrige is inserted or some other place?

 

[opoefc]

Yes, the cylinder face id where you insert a cartridge. Normally you would see the guns serial number stamped on that face between the charge holes ( chambers) in very small numbers. Since your gun has only two digits in the serial number, it may have been lightly stamped there, but has worn off over the years, or it's a replacement cylinder that was never numbered. Check the chamber caliber and see what fits. .44Russian, or? Ed.

 

[acossey]

Well I guess the next big question is value. Of course waiting for the letter is important but any thoughts on value. I'll let you all know what I paid after some numbers come in.