Please help me with this low number new model 3 ***"Roy Jinks letter update"

[Buffalo Nichols]

Acossey, if the cylinder was changed it was probably for 1 of 2 reasons; the first was somehow defective or the owner wanted to change to a caliber more available at his area of the world. We may be able to determine the caliber if you can provide precise measurements of the following. Headspace; the distance between the rear of the cylinder and the standing breach ( area where firing pin comes through the frame) probabaly best done with a feeler guage ( like you used to set the points on a car with), diameter of rear of the charge holes and diameter of the front of the charge holes, a vernier caliper is best for this. With this data we can determine rim thickness, case diameter and bullet diameter to a reasonable degree. From that we may able to narrow the field some, also determine if the charge holes are drilled straight through or have a shoulder, if so determine the depth of the shoulder from the back of the cylinder.

 

[acossey]

Dean,

you say:
It doesn't help. But in the condition it's in, very little to overall value.

What condition is this in? I'm really not familiar with how what the overall condition should be on this gun. Is it not very good?

 

[deadin]

The close-ups show a lot of "brown" roughness. Old rust?
The lettering on the barrel rib appears to have either a lot of wear or having been buffed.
It's not crisp. (Same with the line of the side-plate.)
The full view of the gun has a "blue" tinge that I'm not comfortable with. Cold Blue or ?
It just doesn't look right.
The un-numbered cylinder isn't good.

Over-all a neat gun, but I would rate it somewhere around Fair to Good.

 

[acossey]

Ok here are measurements.
.435-.440 for cartrige hole.
.425 at the front hole of the cylinder.
.930 to shoulder/ridge in cylinder hole
.076 head space.
Cylinder length is 1-7/16"
Center fire
I only have an external caliper so there may a little variation on measurments.
Thanks again for all the great advice and help.
Rich

 

[cgt4570]

It's definitely a standard .44 Russian cylinder.
Chris

 

[opoefc]

acossey, Changed or diffent cylinders in the MN#3s shipped out of the US is a commonly seen condition. Yours has definately been switched to a different cylinder, as evidenced by the non-indexed extractor, and since the cylinder is unnumbered it must be a replacement cylinder. It wasn't rplaced for no reason - the original cylinder was lost, damaged, switched, etc. I doubt that makes any difference in the value. These guns, well worn like yours, are what they are - a piece of S&W history. I would agree that your gun is in fair to good condition ( antique standards) and if it letters to the Cuba shipment that Jim Supica references, that would be a plus and it will be worth collecting as a variation of the NM#3s.

 

[deadin]

.435-.440 for cartrige hole.

Are you sure on this measurement?
That's too small for a 44 Russian. Should be around .457 plus. Will a 44 Mag or 44 Special start to chamber, just not go all the way in?
(They should if it's a 44 Russian)

 

[acossey]

I have 44 mag shell case at home I will try it and post back.

 

[acossey]

Ok, I checked a spent .44 case fits neatly into cylinder.

 

[acossey]

Well you guys were right on with your info. I got my letter today. Some of the highlights.
Cal. 44 russian, rack and gear variation, shipped Sept. 22, 1880 delivered to Don Jose Vallero, Cuba. Shipped with 6.5" barrel, Blue finish, butt swivel,and checkered wood grips. number 53 of 35,796
Any ideas on value with this new info?

 

[acossey]

.

 

[acossey]

Can anyone help me with the value of this gun?

 

[opoefc]

accousey, Value is very subjective when you get guns with as much wear as No. 53. The negative is a mismatched cylinder, the positive is the letter showing shipment to Cuba. Now, if you are a serious New Model No. 3 collector and want a Cuba speciment in your collection, you know they are hard to find with any kind of condition going for them, as they got well used. Having said all that, I would say the gun should sell in the $1250 to $1800 range, IMHO. A consignment to Supica's Old Town Station Dispatch would probably get you the highest dollar possible as NM#3 collectors monitor his offerings closely. Good luck, Ed.

 

[acossey]

Thanks for your input. I'm torn on weather to sell or not. If the value was high enough it may be worth it. But I would rather not sell if theres not much value.