please school me on the .45/70

[Double-O-Dave]

Good afternoon:

I have a chance to buy a Marlin Guide Gun chambered in .45/70 caliber at a decent price. I am considering it for my teenaged son, who wants to hunt everything from whitetail deer to antelopes and bighorn sheep. We have a Remington bolt action rifle in .308 caliber - which I consider a good, medium caliber, all-around hunting rifle. I know very little about the .45/70 - except that it can be used to kill North American big game such as elk, moose, bear, etc. (I am also a big fan of Marlin lever action rifles).

I would appreciate any opinions and advice - especially from any actual users of the .45/70.

Many thanks,

Dave

 

[m1gunner]

Big bullet fired from a light weight rifle. It does its job, but there are more comfortable guns for the shooter, even in that caliber.

 

[venomballistics]

its a caliber to fall in love with for some.
It takes skill and a clear understanding of its trajectory.
It is also a caliber best served in the hands of a hand loader.
Few cartridges can launch a cast lead bullet to as great effect as the 45-70
In terms of ballistics, it's energy is similar to that of a 30-06 though it is translated into crushing momentum rather than speed.
It is not exactly an economical cartridge,nor is it a cartridge I would spend a whole day at the range with ... it kills at one end and maims at the other.
However, at the worst of the ammo and powder shortages, the 45-70 was one of the precious few that kept running when the rest of the world ran dry.

 

[klausinak]

It takes skill and a clear understanding of its trajectory.
It is also a caliber best served in the hands of a hand loader.
Few cartridges can launch a cast lead bullet to as great effect as the 45-70
.

^^This!! Inside 150-200 yds, (depending on which bullet), it's a stone killer. After that you'd better be good @ range estimation & know your drops; it still has plenty of power, but it drops like a brick.

-Klaus

 

[dave b]

A Marlin Guide Gun would not be a good long range hunting rifle in my opinion. It kicks harder than a mule and has a trajectory of a basketball. 45-70 is more than you need for short range deer hunting. That said, it is a joy to shoot in a heavy Sharps rifle and very accurate.

 

[Farmer17]

The main reason to own a 45/70 in my opinion is because you want a lever action in a caliber with more power than a 30/30. I have a good friend who has a Marlin stainless 45/70 with 22" barrel and it has been his main deer rifle for many years with great success and he sees no reason to change. He loves lever actions and there is always a loaded Marlin M39 .22 by his front door for pests also. I love lever actions and have thought about a 45/70 but I'm not too fond of hard kicking guns the older I get.

 

[billwill]

Buddy has one named...'thumper'...aptly named.

 

[venomballistics]

The main reason to own a 45/70 in my opinion is because you want a lever action in a caliber with more power than a 30/30. I have a good friend who has a Marlin stainless 45/70 with 22" barrel and it has been his main deer rifle for many years with great success and he sees no reason to change. He loves lever actions and there is always a loaded Marlin M39 .22 by his front door for pests also. I love lever actions and have thought about a 45/70 but I'm not too fond of hard kicking guns the older I get.

ya don't quite understand the old girl ....
you really have to work hard to make a 45-70 inadequate.
Even a round ball gallery load out of this thing is still an effective game getter by merit of it still being a baseball sized chunk of lead.
I've been playing with powder coated bullets for a good while now. That little trick can let you work up that gallery load into all sorts of new territory.
She's not a one trick pony

 

[Oldiron]

Been shooting 45-70s for years. The firearm design makes or breaks the shooting quality. In the 14" contender it is literally a blast. Shoots best in one hand to keep it from twisting out of you grip. In the Sharps it shoot great at 200 yds. Have shot from both a Guide gun and a 1895 Marlin and the guide gun is the worst of the two. A buddy of mine wanted to try a couple of the 500 gr soft points I shot from the Contender, first time he almost got knocked off the shooting bench. All I got out of him was a big grin and a request for some more. Worst gun to shoot .45-70 through is a Ruger #1. To say it kicks like a mule is an understatement, even though I have shot #1s in .375 H&H and 450 Nitro, the .45-70 was the worst. It is a very fun cal if you reload and is one that I thoroughly enjoy.
Larry

 

[federali]

I think the .45-70 is mainly for nostalgia buffs. There are far better rounds for distant shots at plains game and for whitetails in typical cover, it won't kill a deer any deader than the tried and true .35 Remington.

 

[dave b]

Oldiron, you're close about a Ruger #1 ,but a Ruger#3 is even worse.

 

[cougar14]

Oldiron, you're close about a Ruger #1 ,but a Ruger#3 is even worse.

I have one of these. Weighs near what a Daisy does, and kicks like Old Betsy. Sure gets the sideways look down the gallery when you light it off. Only chambered one year, there's not many of them out there.
I weigh only 150, so I use a slip-on recoil pad.

 

[DWalt]

The .45-70 will kill at much longer distances than you have any chance of hitting your target, due to the very curved bullet trajectory. I'd say 100-150 yards is about max range unless you know the exact distance to your target and can adjust for it. It's a versatile caliber, and I have worked up some fairly hot loads using 300 grain jacketed bullets. Your chances of hitting anything beyond 150 yards will be improved with a HV 300 grain bullet.

 

[Drm50]

45/70

I'm Ohio deer hunter, got our first limited rifle season last year.
I have a 95 Marlin that I've had for years,22" old model. We are
limited to 38 or lager/ straight case. A lot of guys bought the
Guide Gun because it looks neat. 45/70 with barrel that short
is a waste. A 44 mag will give you about the same performance.
45/70 case has a lot of unused volume with smokeless, couple
this with short barrel and gun is kind of waste. Might be OK
for special purpose, as intended. But for main rifle you can do
better.

 

[Engineer1911]

Be careful reading reloading manuals

When reloading for the 45-70 note that there are multiple columns in the reloading manual: Bullet weight, powder, powder charge, MUZZLE VELOCITY, chamber pressure, cartridge length.

Muzzle velocity is the most important. A 400 gr bullet at 1,400 fps can be pleasant / brisk to shoot. Drop down a line or two and the next powder charge could be a 400 gr bullet at 1,650 fps that will be painful / brutal to shoot at the same chamber pressure.

You just got free knowledge from my experience. I was shooting a 12# Sharps replica Quigley!

 

[chaparrito]

A friend owns the guide gun and it's his main deer rifle. I shot it once with some of his deer loads. I was sore for about three days. It sure is a looker though, and I love Marlin levers. My backdoor gun is an old 39A I keep loaded and ready.

 

[venomballistics]

Exactly, it's not a one trick pony.
What seems to stand out about it is that playing in its wide range of possibilities doesn't seem to become unstable like many other cartridges do.
It's a marvel in this regard.

 

[1morethan8]

The last time I shot my .45-70 was 58 years ago.. when I received it from Grandad.. 1873 U.S. Springfield Trapdoor.

 

[Jessie]

A 45-70 Marlin Guide gun ain't no antelope rifle. It will cut your deer tracking to mere feet if you shoot well. My Guide gun is ported so recoil really isn't so bad.
I got it for my trips to Alaska, strictly for bear protection.
I now use it in Virginia for whitetails so I don't have to follow a blood trail into the dark.
Mainly short range, 150yds or so, but with the Leverevolution ammo, its good for 200.
If you know your gun and ammo, you can stretch it much farther. It's a definite
arcing trajectory, but still deadly when it hits at longer ranges.
A fun round to reload too.

 

[Absalom]

The .45/70 is a great cartridge if you accept its limitations. If you want to make half-mile shots and drop an elk two counties over using a bipod and a gazillion-power scope, this is definitely not your cartridge. But if you know how to hunt (and to me, getting within 60 to 80 yards of your prey is a basic skill, except maybe on completely coverless plains like when hunting antelope), the .45/70 is great.

I did most of my hunting with that caliber with an Italian Armisport 1874 Sharps replica, and some with a standard-length Marlin 1895. Regular 300-grain factory HP loads are perfect for deer, with recoil barely an issue. Manufacturers keep pressures low on those so people don't blow up their original trapdoor Springfields with them. For elk I used Winchester Supreme 300 grain Partition loads, which I would also have used had I ever gone bear hunting. I didn't get a chance to try the new Hornady leverrevolution polymer-tip loads before I had to give up the heavy calibers due to a shoulder problem, but the friend who bought the Sharps from me tells me it shoots really sweet with those, too.

The Marling Guide Gun is a different issue. That gun is really optimized for dangerous-game defense at close quarters; of course you can hunt with it, but if you want a repeater, why not find a full-length Marlin 1895; I think it's better balanced, and unless you're planning on creepy-crawling through thick brush after a wounded grizzly, there is no advantage to the ultra-short barrel, just some loss of velocity, increased recoil and muzzle blast.