please school me on the .45/70

All this hatred for the caliber. I started out shooting the family Springfield. Family lore has it that my grandparents bought it about 1904 from the Gubberment. It was kind of surplus and sold for $1.50. The box of ammo they bought with it was $1.75 for 20 rounds! They got it for killing hogs and beef. But the cost was excessive until they discovered 410 shotgun shells worked just fine and were much cheaper. When it was given to me in the early 1960s, we were out of ammo except for one round. We went to a local gun shop and had the owner load us up some light loads. They worked well.

Since then, I've come up with some other guns. I've got an 1886 Winchester that requires a crew to move around. And then there are the single shots. The best I've ever seen is a Browning BiCentennial. And just for fun, I've got its plain jane twin, a B78. That ones got a Leupold scope, 1-4x. I hate its recoil absorbing steel butt plate. But it will easily put 3 rounds into the shield on a Miller light can. Time after time at 100 yards. Those that doubt its accuracy don't speak from experience.

Just for reference, the caliber was used for 1,000 yard competition for a long time. Sure, the big ole slug drops. But its the same amount every time, too. And if you're trying long distance shooting, you can actually see the bullet as it goes out. Back in my teens, I read all the available literature, mostly my dads American Rifleman magazines from before I was born. They kept telling us how accurate they were. So one of our shooting holes was an old played out gravel pit. At the far end of it sat a Buick. No, it wasn't a modern one, but it was old and solid. We paced it off at least a dozen times, and we moved our shooting line so it approximated 1,000 yards, the distance we'd read about.

The old Springfield had a 1,000 yard sight marking. And we discovered it wasn't very good, but we put a sighting point on the hillside behind the Buick. And every time we got a hit, a couple of seconds later we'd hear the thump. With light bullet loads, it would sure dent the sheet metal. Took the paint right off, too. Heavy loads like factory could hole the metal. The poor target took a lot of abuse, but kept its shape.
 
Good News - Plenty of potential power. Variety of power levels even with store bought ammo. With large and heavy bullets , even mild loads are plenty for "mere" whitetails. Good accuraccy , great ctg for handloaders. Recoil is individual and subjective , but most opinions rate the ported Guide Gun as less than conventional M1895's . Most people find traditional lever guns to the fast handling , and the M1895 is typical of the breed.

Bad News - Trajectory. By late 20th Century expectations of flat shooting , and extended so called "PBR" , it is considered limited range. Mind you it will still completely penetrate a bison at 1000yds just as well as they did 130 years ago, but beyond 125-150yds you have to be knowledegable with the trajectory of your load , and range estimation. Faster handloads can incrementally flaten trajectory , but recoil will be limiting factor before it becomes as flat as a .30-30 . And having mentioned recoil , when you shoot it , you know you've fired somthing. *Ruger Only* ( formerly known as M1886 level ) loads will have some whomp for the shooter. The generic factory hunting loads of a 300gr @ 1700-1800fps actual vel aren't bad , and anyone used to a .308- .30-06 class rifle won't be bothered. CAS type loads are fairly mild.

In general terms , some people are small bore rifle guys , some are Big Bore guys. In the handgun world , it would be like comparing a 9mm or .357 Sig with a .44Spl or .45Colt. Each catagory does what it does.

I like .45-70 , have several including a 12in Contender. But directly addressing the OP's question - Using .45-70 for Antelope and Mountain Goat would be giving yourself a challenge on purpose. Won't say impossable , since both of those have been taken with archery , but a featherweight flatshooting mid bore would be a top choice for Mountain Goat.
 
I have a love/hate relationship with my Marlin 1895 in 45/70. According to the reloading chart, it can be loaded up to take elephants, which tells me it's enough gun for anything in North America. If I were going into bear, moose and mountain lion territory, my Marlin's coming along.
The down side, it's the single most miserable rifle I've ever fired. No matter how tightly I hold it into my shoulder, it still feels like Mike Tyson hitting me every time I touch it off. I've never been able to put more than 5 rounds down range before running up the white flag. Also, a big, heavy bullet will have limited range, especially with the shorter barrel on the Guide Gun. MHO, it's probably more gun than he needs. A 308 or 30-06 is much more versatile.
 
Good morning:

Thank you to all of you who responded. I received a lot of really great advice, and consider myself much better schooled on the .45/70. Based on the input I received, I am going to pass on the Marlin Guide Gun for my son. Surprisingly, he is starting to express interest in the .270 caliber, which isn't a bad round, but surprising as he usually holds almost anything "old" in such disdain.

Again, many thanks to all of you guys for some really great insights and advice.

Best regards,

Dave
 
I had a Ruger #1S in 45-70 and as long as you didn't shoot Elmer's memorial loads in it wasn't too bad. a 400 grain bullet at 1,400 to 1,500 fps will kill anything on this planet.

to shoot that load in a Ruger #3 is something that causes nightmares just thinking about.

I bought a Marlin guide gun in 45-70 and while it shot ok it felt like you were cycling the action with sand in it. the stock design on the guide gun made it recoil differently. if you want a 45-70 and it is a good round with a few more limitations than other rounds get the Ruger #1S.

with some of the stories I have heard about Marlins for the last few years I wouldn't get a Marlin
 
Worst gun to shoot .45-70 through is a Ruger #1. To say it kicks like a mule is an understatement...
Hehee, I have a Ruger #1 in 458 Lott. Never shot it from a bench, for a reason.

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The 45-70 is dwarfed by the 458 Lott.

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As to the Marlin 45-70 Guide Gun... Oh yeah, I love it!

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Good choice of the .270 for your son, Dave.

I have a Marlin 1895 in .45-70 and it is used for hunting big wild hogs in heavy brush, it does a great job but not my favorite rifle to hunt with.
 
Another piece of trivia:

The coolest rifle in .45/70 in my book: the "Kodiak Rifle" from Pedersoli, a copy of a traditional double-barrel external-hammer big-game rifle. If you ever want to feel like you're on safari while ambling through your local deer woods, that's the one to get. I don't know whether they're still making it (there was also a .54 cal blackpowder version).

I only got a chance to shoot one once, and never could quite justify the couple thousand bucks to get one (still a bargain compared to a REAL double), but that was a dream gun for a long time.
 
Good morning:

Thank you to all of you who responded. I received a lot of really great advice, and consider myself much better schooled on the .45/70. Based on the input I received, I am going to pass on the Marlin Guide Gun for my son. Surprisingly, he is starting to express interest in the .270 caliber, which isn't a bad round, but surprising as he usually holds almost anything "old" in such disdain.

Again, many thanks to all of you guys for some really great insights and advice.

Best regards,

Dave
Now you're talking. The .270 is an excellent, flat shooting round for everything you mentioned. Easier on the shoulder, too.
It's my favorite mid caliber round and another hand loaders dream.
 
Years ago a "friend" loaned me his Ruger in .458WM. I seem to remember it was a #3, but AFAIK they didn't make them in that chambering. However I do remember the steel buttplate.:eek: (He may have changed it out or rebarreled a #3). He also gave me some 550 gr bullets and his reloading data for his Alaska Brown Bear loads. Like a fool I loaded up a half dozen rounds and headed for the range.
I knew it was going to kick like a mule, so I stood up for the first shot. It wasn't too bad, other than taking my glasses off, so I decided to sit down for the next shot.
OMG!! I thought I had broken something! ...... Several somethings!
Believe me, I stood up for the third shot. (No thoughts whatsoever of going prone...:o)
After picking up my glasses again I finally realized I wasn't enough of a masochist for a fourth shot..............
 
Don't be such a wuss, Deadin. Its only pain and often goes away with time.. :D

While we're advising the OP here, there are other calibers he could/should consider. In that same size bore range as the .270 are the 7mm and then the big brothers 7mm Remington and .264 Winny. All are adaptable and can be made suitable. Handloading is even suggested for the .45-70. With the other calibers if mild recoil is desired, just load your own to the level desired.
 
I haven't seen any "hatred for the caliber" here, just reactions of people who find .45-70 in a light rifle uncomfortable but effective. I'm glad your son likes the .270, Dave. My concern was that for a teenager a .45-70 could be a flinch-builder.
 
Now you're talking. The .270 is an excellent, flat shooting round for everything you mentioned. Easier on the shoulder, too.
It's my favorite mid caliber round and another hand loaders dream.

All during The Great Ammo Unpleasantness of recent years, when the Walmart ammo cupboard was nearly bare, there was ALWAYS plenty of .270.
 
I've tried to reply to this thread before, but storms knocked me off line. The first used Marlin Guide Guns I ever saw, were a pair bought by 2 friends and taken to the range. They each fired one shot from the same gun and returned them both the same day. About a year later I bought a used first series Guide Gun (with factory porting) and ended up with the remainder of those 2 friends box of ammo. Federal 300 grain soft or H.P. I don't remember which. Took it to my back yard and hesitantly fired the first shot. I have owned light weight 44 mag. carbines that kick worse.

I own four 45-70 carbines and rifles, and have never let my sons shoot them. Not for fear that recoil would scare them off (2 of them shot many rounds of sporting clays in T-shirts) but for fear of what they would do to my stash of 45-70 ammo. I keep 300 smokeless and 200 Black Powder rounds at the place at all times. When No.1 and No.2 sons were both home on leave, they had run of the gun safe and went through $350 of ammo for the two 375 H&H,s and 450 Nitro in about 45 minutes. They would go through 500 rounds of 45-70 in no time! If you can afford to feed the boy and the 45-70 he will love it! Ivan
 
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