Pocket gun recoil issues

[exnodak]

I have never had a pocket handgun, but am considering buying one now. I have several larger handguns, and use IWB holsters, either behind the hip or appendix carry. However, there are times when a pocket gun would be a good carry choice.
My problem is, at the age of 80, my hands have a fair amount of arthritis. I have never shot a J frame, or one of the small pocket .380 semi's. Which would be the least punishing to practice with, a J 442/642 or an LCP2 in .380?
All experienced opinions welcome.

 

[JohnK]

I'm nearly 75, with the same problem.

On a scale of 1-10, in recoil"

My 642 rates a "9".

My Kel-Tec P32 rates a "2".

I tried a .380 Kel-Tec, I was surprised to find it rated a "7".

Kept the P32.

 

[Kanewpadle]

Will you able to manipulate the slide on the LCP? Recoil is subjective but I believe the recoil will be worse with the LCP. That has been my experience between the two.

Depending on which pocket you use the LCP will be smaller. Have less of a profile. But if your pockets are big enough the J frame will be a better choice. Especially if carrying in a jacket pocket. A good pocket holster is a must.

With the J frame there will be more options in ammo to choose from in 38 special. You could go with a reduced recoil load which IMO would still be better than any 380 load.

I highly recommend finding a range that rents guns and try before you buy.

I pocket carry a Kimber K6 357 everyday. It's heavier but not bad. Especially in a jacket pocket.

 

[dr. K]

A J Frame with a standard pressure 90 or 110 grain bullet (Hornady makes both) might be a decent choice. With a revolver there's the added bonus of not needing to rack a slide or try to cram bullets into magazines if arthritis is an issue. I have a 442 (airweight, internal hammer) and with lighter weight bullets it's a breeze. Grips can make a substantial difference in felt recoil as well, but I'm afraid I don't have much experience with lots of different grips. Having said that, many advocate for the rubber J Frame combat grips sold on the S&W website; they cover the back strap, which should help with recoil, and allow you to grip the gun with your whole hand for better control. Hope that helps!

 

[dr. K]

kanewpaddle posted before I could finish and brought up a great point... a heavier gun can still be pocket carried, and paired with a lighter round might just help you find your sweet spot!

 

[ContinentalOp]

I can't comment on the .380, but a 442/642 loaded with 148gr target wadcutters may be manageable. Someone with arthritis may have some difficulty with the trigger pull, but that issue can be mitigated with a trigger job or the Apex duty kit.

The problem is that what WE think is manageable may not be the same as what YOU think is manageable. Your best bet is to find a way to try each and see for yourself, either trying a friend's gun or going to a rental range.

While not my first choice, going to a smaller caliber may help, such as JohnK's choice of a .32. Pocket guns in .32, .25, or even .22 may not be the optimum choice, but if you can find a reliable pocket gun in one of those calibers that you can shoot well, you'll be better armed than if you were carrying a bigger caliber pocket gun that you can't shoot well.

Just my opinion.

 

[Marshal Tom]

The revolver would be easier for you to manipulate than trying to work the slide on any of the small pocket semi's. Might need to change out the grips as well for something that you can get a better hold on. I think one of the S&W's you mentioned would be a better choice for you at this point in time.

 

[Rpg]

J frames such as the M38, 40, 42, 49 and their contemporary progeny are the quintessential pocket pistols.

The air weighs ( M38 & 42) are hardest to shoot well as are the contemporary versions such as the 642 and 638: recoil can be a problem.

The solution to the recoil problem is using target wadcutter ammo.

Stay away from anything else.

Traditional target wadcutter loads are pleasant to shoot and very effective self defense loads, although not as sexy as the hi price gee whiz stuff with fancy names (critical defense, etc).

Another way to deal with the recoil problem is to use one of the all steel versions: M49, 40 or contemporary eg M640.

You can shoot target wadcutter ammo in the steel j frames for the most manageable combination of all.

I'm not including j frames with exposed hammers here (eg the M36, 37 Chief's Special and their ilk) since I think they are poor choices for pocket carry.

A professional trigger job helps immensely in making a j frame shootabe especially for those with arthritis.

 

[SA1911]

Good Morning, exnodak,

There is no free ride with small handguns.

Lightweight guns firing .38 Special +P wouldn't be fun.

In my opinion and in only my opinion, I'd rather have a 5-shot J Frame loaded with standard .38 Special rounds than ANY .380 Auto. In fact, the smallest cartridge I've ever carried for saving my life (my life is pretty darn important to me) is the .38 Special FBI Load.

My advice: buy an all steel J Frame; e.g. Model 36. Try it with standard velocity rounds. If your hands allow, try the FBI Load.

You gotta consider likely scenarios in which a bad guy might try to harm you. Go with US DOJ stats. 90+% of gunfights have occurred at very close range (ten feet or closer). It's almost a 100% fact that your assailant will be either under the influence of drugs, a psychopath (psychopaths can soak up a lotta lead), or a combo of the two. That means you gotta end an assailant's intent a month ago yesterday. To do so, you're gonna need a CNS hit or a whole lotta penetration.

A Chief with standard velocity .38 Special loads is not difficult to fire.

I wish you the absolute best.

 

[JH1951]

I'm 67. Have tried the Ruger LCP, KelTec equivalent, and the S&W Bodyguard. all .380's and found them absolutely great for concealment, but no fun at all shooting as they were brutal on my wrist.
I very much prefer my Sig 1911 Ultra. but there I am giving up some of the luxury of carry that the tiny guys provide. I can control the .45 ACP Sig better and it is a pleasure to shoot. It conceals quite well (for me, anyway) in the carry positions you mention. This provides the desire to practice with it more which in my book is a very good thing.
I also very much like my S&W J-frame 49 and 649 using .38 Spl. These are not the lightweights, and provide me with more 'control' and a lot less beating on my wrist - yes, less than .380 tiny guys I have tried. The 649 carries exceptionally well in my front pocket with a Mika holster. I like that combination very much.
My carry pieces are the Sig 1911 Ultra Compact and the J-frame 649. I carry one or the other and feel adequately protected and able to hit the target if need be. I have sold all of my .380's - just couldn't feel the love.
Another thought: Don't discount the possibility of carrying a .22. Not my first choice, but rather that than nothing. That day could come for me, who knows?
Please keep us posted on your adventure!

 

[Jdavis]

I am in my 70s and thankfully do not have arthritis. I personally find the recoil from a J-frame with all but the lightest loads uncomfortable. A well fitting set of grips can make it more tolerable. I have carried a Kahr P380 for several years loaded with good defensive ammo. The recoil from the Kahr is far easier for me to handle than the J-frame. My thinking is that the 380 defensive load is at least as efficient as a low powered .38 spl load. S&W has the .380 Bodyguard and the new Shield .380 EZ that you might also include in your search for pocket guns. The Shield EZ is designed to be easy to rack the slide.

 

[Wise_A]

I think the RM380 might be up your alley. It's not the smallest .380, but the slide is very easy to manipulate, and recoil is surprisingly light. I think the biggest downside for you would be the rather long trigger.

 

[richardw]

I am 75 and I have arthritis in my hands with my left being worse than the right. When it came to a pocket gun I bought the Remington RM 380. It is highly rated and has low recoil and is easy to rack. I had not problems operating or firing it. S&W has just announced its new 380 ACP pistol that is easy to rack and has low recoil. I did. Lot of research on 380 semis before getting the Remington. It got the best reviews for recoil and racking.

I carried it every day for. I this. I also did a lot of hand therapy. After a a few months I found that I could once again rack a 9mm.

 

[CB3]

I like neither pocket carry nor revolvers for self defense nor small calibers. However, I don't think a small semi-auto would be a good choice for you.

Given your requirements, a S&W 432 PD in .32 H&R Magnum should be considered. I bought one for my daughter to carry in a purse years ago and it served the purpose just fine.

You can shoot .32 Short or Long from it for practice and carry the magnum loads. The heavier load has more velocity than a .32 ACP and therefore better penetration. You can get expanding rounds that work. Six rounds instead of a J-Frame's 5.

About the same weight with some reduced recoil (very mild with training ammo). Decent sized grip compared to a small auto. Good DAO trigger. Safe. Easy to carry & maintain.

They are no longer made but are for sale in many places. Ammo is a little more difficult to find, especially the shorts and longs, but the inter webs can solve those problems. It doesn't sound like you need hundreds of rounds anyway.

Good luck on finding what will work for you, not just for now but maybe for 5 years or more from now.

 

[two-bit cowboy]

The others have given you much to think about so I'll offer three points no one else has touched on for your consideration.

If you choose a small revolver you don't have to have one with an internal hammer. You can have an external hammer bobbed so the hammer spur doesn't snag when you present the gun.

Too, you're not limited to .38s. My first love was a .32 Regulation Police (I-frame, square butt, six-shot), and I still like the caliber a bunch. There are also .32 Hand Ejectors (round butt -- maybe a bit more concealed carry friendly, but each person's opinion differs on that). I'm 65 and lucky not to suffer from arthritis or other ailments related to dexterity, but I have both model .32s (square and round butt) if I ever decide I can no longer handle the .38, .357 or 9mm revolvers. (I also have a .32 magnum, Model 631, just in case.)

A big decision maker for you might be to consider what type clothing you'll be wearing when you pocket carry. I always wear blue jeans (yip, that's an absolute!). I usually wear a vest, but none of my vests have carry-friendly pockets. Last fall I started to pocket carry an M&P 340 in a pocket holster in my left front jeans pocket. Although I practiced every day, I never reached a level of confidence that I could be fast enough or smooth enough to defend myself if the time came. Last week I gave up pocket carry, and I switched to 3" K-frame 9mm in a cross draw holster. I'm already faster and more confident than I ever was with the 340 in my jeans pocket. I don't find the K-frame too heavy or uncomfortable, and it's far more convenient when I'm driving.

Best of luck with your decision.

 

[RGVshooter]

I'm surprised no one considered one of the Beretta tip up barrel pistols. The Tomcat 3032 is a good choice. And there's the 950 jetfire in 25acp. There is a lever on the side of the frame that you push forward and the barrel pops out of the frame and rotates forward allowing the shooter to load a round directly in the chamber, close the barrel, insert a loaded mag and your ready to rock. Great little pocket guns!


The S&W J frames such as the 642 for example are great little guns! However I agree with most that the recoil is pretty stout due to it's lightweight design. I never owned or shot a Ruger LCP 380 so I can't comment on it too much although I own & carry a M&P bodyguard 380 I still strongly feel that the OP should consider one of the Beretta tip up barrel pistols due to his advanced years & arthritis.

 

[ggibson511960]

Fat Grips!!

Don't be afraid of the .380 pocket guns. I've had several and all wore Hogues to fatten up the grip. The new LCP II has healthy serrations that make slide manipulation pretty easy. I believe people get scared away from small pocket guns because they can't shoot target class groups where 99.999999% of .380 ammunition is expended. Having said all that, your hands are what matters. If Uncle Arthur precludes manipulating a .380, he's not going to help make a DA pull on a J-frame. Congrats on being 80!

 

[mgriffin]

I'm thinking steel J Frame and not Airweight, older 640 shooting .38 wadcutters. Also, take a look at the Crimson Trace LG-450 laser grips. they have a "pocket" between the frame and the grip which reduces the felt recoil.

 

[Grimjaws]

Shield EZ

How about looking at the new Shield EZ. It seems to be made for low recoil

 

[serger]

One of my problems is grip strength to cycle the slide. It's getting
rougher to do. In anticipation for the day when I can't do that, I
bought a Beretta 21A in 22lr. I know it's anemic but with Aquila 60
grain subsonic rounds It's adequate for head shots to 10 yards.

The advantage for me is the tip up barrel. not much strength
needed to cycle the barrel release. And having "some" gun is
better than having "no" gun.

I do still shoot the J frames. But it's getting more difficult. The
recoil is enough that depending on how much I shoot I get the
"ice pick" in the joints and the burn afterward.

You might look at the 3032 or the model 86 but I think they
might be too big.

It's a B**** getting old but it does beat the alternative.