Looking for pocket carry gun under $500

[markeb]

Sig P365. KyGunCo is selling for 10% off plus there's a free 2 magazine promotion going on thru the middle of June. $450.00 plus 2 free mags. Also free shipping.

 

[Law-dog]

Hi, all. I'm looking for a pocket carry option in the $350-$500 range. I'm looking at four S&Ws right now in my local shops:

Bodyguard BG 38 (the plastic one) @ $350
Pro: I have .38 already, it's light, it's the cheapest.
Con: Not well thought of by many upon release. Did they ever get better?

Bodyguard 2.0 .380 for $400
Pro: Small enough, light enough, holds 10+1, price good
Con: Even the ones I've seen in the shops have had issues, like the recoil spring going over the end of the rod. I don't have any .380 already.

Shield 2.0 Performance Center ported for $479
https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/performance-center-ported-m-p-9-shield-m2.0-hi-viz-sights
Pro: 9mm +P performance, I hadve 9mm already
Con: Borderline size for pocket carry, most expensive.

642 no lock for $479
Pro: I have .38 already, it's light, it's a known quantity ((had a 638, but sold it because it was, frankly, ugly)
Con: Capacity, the most expensive.

I'm also entertaining a Glock 42 or 43 at about $450, as well.
Pro: I already have a Glock 19, so I'm familiar.
Con: Capacity, size is as large or larger than siilar capacity guns.

Not a fan of the Ruger LCP family.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

I am 76, 4 different law enforcement agencies and 2 military branches. MP, OSI, Protective service specialist, you name it, from a J frame to Uzzis.

I have been a CCW instructor since 1996 and get this question often. Your $500 budget is not enough. Why, because the perfect carry gun will have a button activated laser whether you use it or not. If you choose a hammerless design, 642, 640, etc the laser is much more needed.

I have the Glock 42 and Glock 43, have since the month they hit the market. I have the J frames, I collect them, from the 36 to 60, 2 inch 3 inch, etc Not much better than a stainless model 60 with adjustable sights. It needs a laser to, for those split second events in which you must shoot from the hip or around a corner and cannot see your own handgun.

The bodyguards are all good, I have trained many on them.

There is a gap in your query. What caliber? Guns and Ammo did a review of the top 10 single stack 9mms many years ago. That story got them in a lot of trouble so they redid it, somewhat. But the results were quite telling. Of the top 10 by sales volume only the KelTec Pf9, Glock 43 and the Taurus 709 went the full 8,000 rounds or whatever the max was to be. In fact those two went longer, 10,000 rounds I think. But we are talking 9mm, it takes a much better gun to run thousands of rounds that it does say a 380. Most of the more expensive guns could not go as long before they malfunction. Probably does not matter to you, because you clean your guns, their review was about how long dirty guns will run.

Forget about the marketing data, the 3-3.5 inch 9mm handguns are barely getting 300 fpe in stopping power, the 38s with the 2 inch tube are in the 220 fpe range. I chrono everything. A 4 inch 380 is likely better than a 2 inch J frame. It all depends on your (1) comfort level, (2) actual threat type maybe, and (3) what your bias already is. Choose what you want and shoot the heck out of it.

I teach the one shot stop theory, which I made up years ago. Based on my research i 4 different agencies, a masters degree on the subject and reading magazines and blogs---and police reports----

I arrived at the following, my one shot self defense theory, it goes like this:

1. In a self defense shooting, 2 people 2 guns, the action starts now.

2. The first person hit loses some of his ability to return fire. The first person hit, will lose the gun fight 85-90% of the time. My theory is that if you are the one shooting, and you hit the other guy one time, you can run and hide and he will cease the battle.

3. If the person shooting has landed that first round and is able to plant a second round into the wounder attacker then the 85 % successful first round increases dramatically, in the 95% range. For reference, think about the Marshall and Sanow testing, which gave probabilities. Lots of challenge to their database, but think about the data. A 357 was a 90-95% one shot event, correct? Now look at cases where the person received 2 of those 357 mag, 125 round bullets at 535 fpe. There are outliers and goofy reports out there, but not from solid hits from those known rounds. So , my data says 2 hits puts that shooter victim in a category of only have about 5% success rate, once he has captured two rounds of any commercial self defense ammo. His ability to fight back takes a second seat to his desire to travel to an ER or at least crawl back into a safe spot.

4. And my theory based on data is that if one person ha received 3 rounds of self defense ammo into his body, the chances of him continuing winning this gun fight drop very low, about to zero.

There are sensational reports everywhere, about zombie like attackers. I once arrested a fellow on PCP, he threw my partner through the air like a doll, it was a busy night.

On balance self defense ammo works. On balance people who get shot do not continue charging another person with a gun. On balance sometimes it makes no sense to keep shooting somebody running at you in the torso, per haps a knee would stop the charge. The drugged an crazy do not understand the rules, so when we carry to protect against those guys, it is important that we land the first rounds, #1 being by far the most important, hence laser and things like that, #2 being critical to stopping the perp from getting off rounds or additional rounds, and #3 being insurance.


Call me nuts if you want no harm done.

As far as choices, I love my wheel guns and have many. I have many. I have models 60 and 66 with CT lasers, nothing even close to that fast. However in my pocket daily is the KelTec Pf9 the smallest and lightest 9mm made, 12.7 ounces empty and in winter I carry the Glock 43 in that pocket. The reason? The Glock has night sights.

So, two suggestions. You have a 642, put a grip activated laser on it, nothing is faster. Shoot 300-400 rounds of wadcutters through it at 25 yards, then tell us how you feel about it.

Second, there are 400 options of small 380 and 9mm handguns out there. If you choose 380, get one that holds 10 or more rounds. If you choose 9mm pick what you want. I am not a shield fan, but everybody shoots them well and their accuracy is great, I have trained many people on them.

I trained 2 ladies age 49 and 66 on the Shield EZ 380 a couple years ago. Those guns were perfect in every way, sights, triggers, slide racking, accuracy and 100% reliable. Forget about the early reviews on any gun, Almost always l half of the problems are limp wristing or shooter error. So, my suggestions, do not bother to read any review of new guns until they have been out there a year or so.

And let us know, show some groups AFTER you have fired the new gun 300-400 rounds. Good luck.

I prefer the outside hammer, there is no snag when it comes out of my pocket, and I can shoot things at 50 yards with a 2 inch snub if I choose.

 

[Law-dog]

Every day, all day, pocket carry for me is a J-Frame no matter what is in my waistband. Some days I just carry Two J-Frames.

The Josey Wales reload, 2 guns same caliber, the fastest reload ever. Guys on the old Texas Ranger Gan g Task force did that. Very common, two identical 1911s or tw identical model 19s with the 2.5 inch tube. 2 ins one one is none.

We walk the dogs and hike as a senior couple, 74 and 76. My wife does not like to wear clothes that will conceal. When we go we are often in harms way once we are just a half mile beyond people. We have had actual risk, but showing the gun sent him away. I carry a model 36 with laser as the second gun, I can simply hand it to her if need be, or , I have tow guns, not a problem, I have 4 pockets.

Pocket carry is not a problem, except in the car/truck, you simply take it out, or just throw that extra in the console. Every trip more than 10 miles gets a full size gun in the console. I do have a heavy safe in the back floor of truck. Everybody should.

 

[Coyote56]

Beretta Nano (discontinued but available..saw a couple used at GT Distrubutors recently for <$300).
Long-ish trigger pull but easy to get used to. Very concealable. Easy to carry.

 

[jeffrefrig]

I recently (before my last post on this thread March31 or so) bought a Charter Arms "Off Duty" .38 Special. Depending on the rain, tomorrow will be my 2nd time shooting it. It's 14.3 oz. empty. For a CA brand gun, the DAO trigger is excellent, IMO. It's made in USA, Shelton, CT. (I think Charter arms has always been USA) I want to try it out again, of course, in case I want to put it in the other pocket gun's spot.
I paid over $300, maybe closer to $400, but I liked shooting it. 25 yards was not much of a problem getting in the body on one of those bright green silhouette targets. If you see one under the glass, ask to pick it up. The trigger is surprisingly nice.

 

[BourbonCowboy]

+1 for the BG2.0 for pocket carry

Mine's in a DeSantis nemesis holster on a daily basis.

This is exactly what I have. I'd almost stopped daily carry due to the size and weight of my available options. Now I carry daily.

 

[decuerno]

Ruger LC9s in 9mm.

While .380 attracts a lot of folks…. but I will recommend that if you like a pistol in .380…you can likely find the same gun or close-copy in 9mm. I have personal experience of multiple .380 FMJ’s going into a mental/crazy kidnapper’s sternum from 3 feet away…and the man survived.

 

[lightstar_actual]

G43 for the win!

 

[Shibadog]

It is true that many striker fired handguns are now offered with a manual safety. This is a fairly recent development though, and without question they are not sold in as many numbers as the non manual safety models. And yes, a 5lb trigger isn't exactly "light". That said, I will stand by my assessment that putting a striker fired pistol (without a safety) in your pocket is a bad idea - for most people anyways.

I’ve got to agree. I love my FN Reflex, BUT it is the manual safety model. There is NO way under the sun I’d ever carry a cocked and unlocked SA pistol, much less carry it in a pocket

 

[Shibadog]

I am 76, 4 different law enforcement agencies and 2 military branches. MP, OSI, Protective service specialist, you name it, from a J frame to Uzzis.

I have been a CCW instructor since 1996 and get this question often. Your $500 budget is not enough. Why, because the perfect carry gun will have a button activated laser whether you use it or not. If you choose a hammerless design, 642, 640, etc the laser is much more needed.

I have the Glock 42 and Glock 43, have since the month they hit the market. I have the J frames, I collect them, from the 36 to 60, 2 inch 3 inch, etc Not much better than a stainless model 60 with adjustable sights. It needs a laser to, for those split second events in which you must shoot from the hip or around a corner and cannot see your own handgun.

The bodyguards are all good, I have trained many on them.

There is a gap in your query. What caliber? Guns and Ammo did a review of the top 10 single stack 9mms many years ago. That story got them in a lot of trouble so they redid it, somewhat. But the results were quite telling. Of the top 10 by sales volume only the KelTec Pf9, Glock 43 and the Taurus 709 went the full 8,000 rounds or whatever the max was to be. In fact those two went longer, 10,000 rounds I think. But we are talking 9mm, it takes a much better gun to run thousands of rounds that it does say a 380. Most of the more expensive guns could not go as long before they malfunction. Probably does not matter to you, because you clean your guns, their review was about how long dirty guns will run.

Forget about the marketing data, the 3-3.5 inch 9mm handguns are barely getting 300 fpe in stopping power, the 38s with the 2 inch tube are in the 220 fpe range. I chrono everything. A 4 inch 380 is likely better than a 2 inch J frame. It all depends on your (1) comfort level, (2) actual threat type maybe, and (3) what your bias already is. Choose what you want and shoot the heck out of it.

I teach the one shot stop theory, which I made up years ago. Based on my research i 4 different agencies, a masters degree on the subject and reading magazines and blogs---and police reports----

I arrived at the following, my one shot self defense theory, it goes like this:

1. In a self defense shooting, 2 people 2 guns, the action starts now.

2. The first person hit loses some of his ability to return fire. The first person hit, will lose the gun fight 85-90% of the time. My theory is that if you are the one shooting, and you hit the other guy one time, you can run and hide and he will cease the battle.

3. If the person shooting has landed that first round and is able to plant a second round into the wounder attacker then the 85 % successful first round increases dramatically, in the 95% range. For reference, think about the Marshall and Sanow testing, which gave probabilities. Lots of challenge to their database, but think about the data. A 357 was a 90-95% one shot event, correct? Now look at cases where the person received 2 of those 357 mag, 125 round bullets at 535 fpe. There are outliers and goofy reports out there, but not from solid hits from those known rounds. So , my data says 2 hits puts that shooter victim in a category of only have about 5% success rate, once he has captured two rounds of any commercial self defense ammo. His ability to fight back takes a second seat to his desire to travel to an ER or at least crawl back into a safe spot.

4. And my theory based on data is that if one person ha received 3 rounds of self defense ammo into his body, the chances of him continuing winning this gun fight drop very low, about to zero.

There are sensational reports everywhere, about zombie like attackers. I once arrested a fellow on PCP, he threw my partner through the air like a doll, it was a busy night.

On balance self defense ammo works. On balance people who get shot do not continue charging another person with a gun. On balance sometimes it makes no sense to keep shooting somebody running at you in the torso, per haps a knee would stop the charge. The drugged an crazy do not understand the rules, so when we carry to protect against those guys, it is important that we land the first rounds, #1 being by far the most important, hence laser and things like that, #2 being critical to stopping the perp from getting off rounds or additional rounds, and #3 being insurance.


Call me nuts if you want no harm done.

As far as choices, I love my wheel guns and have many. I have many. I have models 60 and 66 with CT lasers, nothing even close to that fast. However in my pocket daily is the KelTec Pf9 the smallest and lightest 9mm made, 12.7 ounces empty and in winter I carry the Glock 43 in that pocket. The reason? The Glock has night sights.

So, two suggestions. You have a 642, put a grip activated laser on it, nothing is faster. Shoot 300-400 rounds of wadcutters through it at 25 yards, then tell us how you feel about it.

Second, there are 400 options of small 380 and 9mm handguns out there. If you choose 380, get one that holds 10 or more rounds. If you choose 9mm pick what you want. I am not a shield fan, but everybody shoots them well and their accuracy is great, I have trained many people on them.

I trained 2 ladies age 49 and 66 on the Shield EZ 380 a couple years ago. Those guns were perfect in every way, sights, triggers, slide racking, accuracy and 100% reliable. Forget about the early reviews on any gun, Almost always l half of the problems are limp wristing or shooter error. So, my suggestions, do not bother to read any review of new guns until they have been out there a year or so.

And let us know, show some groups AFTER you have fired the new gun 300-400 rounds. Good luck.

I prefer the outside hammer, there is no snag when it comes out of my pocket, and I can shoot things at 50 yards with a 2 inch snub if I choose.

Well said. I’m an old follower of Bill Jordan and Jeff Cooper. Jordan’s “No Second Place Winner” pretty much sums it up-first man to land a round on target usually wins the fight. Capacity is nice, but as Col. Cooper says “if you can’t stop a thug or two with 7 rounds (.45), you don’t need more ammo, you need to learn how to shoot”, and “if you’ve not resolved the issue in 7 rounds odds are pretty poor that you will be able to with the 10 one”. Basically, whatever you choose to carry, CARRY it, always, and SHOOT it a lot so that you re proficient with it. That deadly accurate pistol at home in the safe isn’t going to help you, and that pistol you carry and never shoot isn’t much better…YMMV

 

[ImDrRich]

S&W 442-1