Polished internals, now sear gets stuck

[Nahpets]

Hello!

Got a used 3 year old SW. The seller said there was a different rebound spring.
Shot 50 rounds and worked perfectly.

Then I got the foolish idea to polish the internals. Watched several YouTube videos for different approaches and understandings.

Now I have a trigger that doesn’t always return every 10-15 pull. And this:
5 januari 2023 - YouTube

I have merely lightly polished the internals. No stoning. Left the SA/DA angles untouched.
Specially for the sear: What I did do was to polish the sear on the surface where the trigger drags as it returns.

When I polished the sides of the hammer and sear I removed the sear from it. The sear spring was very slightly bent but straightened out. Before installing it was straight.
Now the sear seems to get stuck and not “fall” into position.
I cleaned all parts and scarcely used weapon ptfe lube (applied and wiped off).

The result is a turning cylinder but no hammer movement.
With the slide plate on and main spring tightened it behaves the same.

The main spring screw is not tightened in the video.

Man do I regret I did this…
Please help…

 

[Protocall_Design]

I'd start with a new sear spring, or stretch the one you have slightly. It looks like it's not quite strong enough.

 

[Rlg#17]

Ah, boobtube…. Ruining one good gun at a time! Just replace the parts with new ones, depending on what model you trashed it should have parts somewhere.

You didn’t mention why you thought it needed polishing, just that you did it. If you don’t know what you are doing, stay out of the guts if a firearm except for a deep clean. And then only do that after a gillion rounds or so.

Cases like this where something has been bubbaed is the reason I wouldn’t buy a firearm without having it in my hands for inspection.

Regards from the Commonwealth,
Rick Gibbs

 

[armorer951]

You might also consider installing an unmodified factory rebound slide spring. This spring is critical in terms of full reset of the trigger. If the trigger return is incomplete due to a weak (aftermarket) rebound spring, the DA sear may not reset.

Carter

 

[IrishFritz]

It is hard to diagnose what the problem might be without seeing the gun first hand. Speaking as a retired gunsmith with 50 years experience may I suggest that you take the gun to a qualified gunsmith and have them correct the problem so you can be assured the gun is safe and reliable.

 

[Rlg#17]

It is hard to diagnose what the problem might be without seeing the gun first hand. Speaking as a retired gunsmith with 50 years experience may I suggest that you take the gun to a qualified gunsmith and have them correct the problem so you can be assured the gun is safe and reliable.

What he said! People can make numerous suggestions as to a fix, however it is merely a guess…

Regards, Rick Gibbs

 

[Nahpets]

Hello there.

Heavier rebound spring solved the issue.

Anyway, I'll have my gunsmith changing sights and look over the trigger feel.

Have a nice day ��

 

[armorer951]

".....merely a guess"

 

[Vtgw938]

If you need any parts including sear springs & rebound springs, I have some NOS parts from an old M66 armorer's kit that would fit others as well I am sure.

 

[Nahpets]

If you need any parts including sear springs & rebound springs, I have some NOS parts from an old M66 armorer's kit that would fit others as well I am sure.

Thank you for your offer. I'm based in Sweden though .
Thank you all for support.

 

[jcelect]

Questions for the OP!
!. If you did not use a stone, how did you polish the internals?
2. How did you remove the sears. The SA sear is part of the trigger &
hammer!
3. S&W revolvers have two springs to operate the hammer and trigger,
The flat main spring(on K,L, & N frames) and the trigger rebound slide
spring. There is no spring on the sear. It is a latch point from which
the hammer is released to fall.

A test for you! After you cycle the gun in DA mode does the hammer operate properly? If the answer is no, try to push the trigger forward with your finger. If the trigger moves ANY amount, try the DA mode again. If the hammer operates properly, you have a trigger return slide problem. The spring has been cut or replaced with a lighter spring to reduce the DA trigger pull.

Sometimes Bubba Gunsmithing thinks they know how to lighten the trigger pull when in fact, they have no idea of how the main spring and trigger rebound slide spring control the trigger pull and the hammer falling force!

You are learning, as long as you understand on what happened to cause your problem. I just hope you haven't messed up the internal parts of your revolver.

Jcelect

 

[Protocall_Design]

He was talking about the DA sear on the hammer which does have it's own spring. I don't think the OP is a Bubba.

 

[Nahpets]

Questions for the OP!
!. If you did not use a stone, how did you polish the internals?
2. How did you remove the sears. The SA sear is part of the trigger &
hammer!
3. S&W revolvers have two springs to operate the hammer and trigger,
The flat main spring(on K,L, & N frames) and the trigger rebound slide
spring. There is no spring on the sear. It is a latch point from which
the hammer is released to fall.

A test for you! After you cycle the gun in DA mode does the hammer operate properly? If the answer is no, try to push the trigger forward with your finger. If the trigger moves ANY amount, try the DA mode again. If the hammer operates properly, you have a trigger return slide problem. The spring has been cut or replaced with a lighter spring to reduce the DA trigger pull.

Sometimes Bubba Gunsmithing thinks they know how to lighten the trigger pull when in fact, they have no idea of how the main spring and trigger rebound slide spring control the trigger pull and the hammer falling force!

You are learning, as long as you understand on what happened to cause your problem. I just hope you haven't messed up the internal parts of your revolver.

Jcelect

Hello sir,

I really appreciate your input.
I'm Swedish so perhaps I use the wrong wording. To reply your points:
1. I used fine polish compound together with a dremel (felt). I addressed the contact surfaces of the frame, hammer and outside rebound spring holder and inside (800 paper). Didn't touch the SA/DA surfaces on the hammer. This i didn't want to mess with.
I would say the polishing was carefully done.

2. I used the reference Sear because this was what I found in the exploded view drawing: Smith & Wesson Model 686 Revolver Parts | Numrich.
Item #49 is referred to as "Sear".

The guns cycles now as it did before I worked on it. Dried fire with snap caps ~200 times.
However it's clearly heavier as I went for a heavier spring.
(As I bought it used, there was 3 springs with it but without labeling so I have no clue what is what. )
What I can't understand is why it changed likings of spring after I gently polished some contact surfaces. It should run easier...

I probably have the wolff spring kit as the main spring that came loose with it has this rib. The installed one is simply flat. This I never replaced.
The one I removed was the shortest one, replaced with a tad longer. In the picture you can see the loose springs. The shortest is now installed. The other two looks equal in wire radius, no of turns and length.

 

[Nahpets]

Here you see the replaced rebound spring compared to the longer springs.
The lines have a distance of 5mm between them.

And you can also see the "polished" internals.

 

[wproct]

Some very nice pictures of the internals. I have enjoyed reading your posts. I have worked some on my Ruger revolvers, but not brave enough to dive into my Smith & Wesson revolvers.

 

[jcelect]

Excellent pics!

Sir, my point about Bubba Gunsmithing was to imply you need to know the relationship between the two springs before attempting to do a "trigger job"! Having bought the gun used, I would guess the previous owner did not understand this relationship! I'm sorry, if you assume I meant you were the Bubba Gunsmith!
Your picture answers many questions for us! The main spring that has the arch in the center is from Wolf! The flat main spring is probably S&W stock.
NO rebound slide spring should be THAT SHORT! Wolf rebound slide springs are all the same length, but each has a different spring rate. Remove that short-rebound slide spring and trash it!
To reduce the DA trigger pull, you reduce the spring rate of the rebound slide spring to a certain point and then going farther will have negative results. In SA mode this spring is compressed and removed from the trigger pull weight. The Wolf main spring has a lighter spring rate than the stock spring. Making the main spring to light will cause Failure-to-fire rounds because the hammer does not have enough force to fire the primer.
In general, making the trigger pull too light will cause push off of the hammer when cocked for SA mode. That is, when pushing on the hammer when cocked the hammer can be pushed to fire without touching the trigger!
Polishing is a good thing! I use a hard Arkansas stone for all flat surfaces. That is both side of the hammer and trigger, the bottom of the rebound slide, and lightly on the sides of the rebound slide. Using a Dremel tool with polishing compound can cause minute dips in these flat surfaces.
I don't believe you have damage any of the internal parts of your gun!
jcelect

 

[DVCBILL]

It worked till you tightened the hammer spring screw all the way. It was probably backed out which all was happy. Both springs need to be in balance.

 

[jeffrefrig]

From jcelect, post 11: "You are learning, as long as you understand on what happened to cause your problem."
I was thinking the same thing. Cleaning is one thing I can do, and minor things like changing stocks or maybe anything that doesn't need more than a screwdriver. I've checked/cleaned the internals on new-to-me preowned revolvers, but thats my limit. Heck it takes me 5-10 minutes sometimes just to get the side plate back on a S&W! I give you credit for trying. Next time will be better, etc.

 

[stansdds]

I don't want to pile on here, but I don't think much is gained by polishing MIM parts. One of the benefits of MIM over machined parts is that MIM parts have smooth surfaces, whereas machined parts will often have machining marks. It is machining marks that are polished when tuning the firearm's action.

 

[KAC]

OP should keep that short rebound spring as it is about the perfect length for a J Frame revolver. S&W used to have a spring like that for the J Frames, but now they stuff a K,L,N spring into the rebound slide, which is not that easy to do.
KAC