Poor accuracy with Model 638

[mauiblue]

I've owned my Model 638 for about 4 years now. I bought it brand new. Since the beginning of ownership I've tried to become proficient with this gun in regards to being accurate. I've shot it off a sand bag and practiced with it on and off all this time and I could never become accurate with it. Finally a few days ago I decided to send it back to S&W service department to see if the gun is defective. I've been shooting handguns for almost 30 years and never had issues with any of my firearms until now. This is my first J frame revolver.

Any experience from other members regarding S&W services and the turnaround is? Anyone experienced inaccuracy issues with their J frame revolvers and how did you resolve it. I really would appreciate any and all information about these topics.

Aloha and mahalo in advance.

Sent from my coconut frond hut using Tapatalk

 

[Kernel Crittenden]

Try it with a laser grip. Barrow a friends if you don't want to buy one.

 

[mauiblue]

Try it with a laser grip. Barrow a friends if you don't want to buy one.

Thanks for the reply. I really don't want to go with a laser grip. I want to stay old school and true with the wheel gun. I've watched a few YouTube videos especially hickok45 shooting the same model I have and he's on target more times than not...without a laser grip.

I just read a thread where a member sent in their Model 617 for service and got it back in less than two weeks. I hope I am that fortunate also with the issue resolved.

 

[D Brown]

I guess it's too late to benefit the Original Poster; but if someone is having apparent accuracy issues with a firearm type they are not well versed in, by all means, or any means, find someone experienced with that type firearm to check it out (fire it at the range) for you to see if it's the gun or you that's the problem before sending it back to Smith & Wesson for what may end up being a wasted trip.

While the J-frame platform may be a little more difficult to shoot accurately than the larger frame sizes, it is capable of surprising accuracy when the shooter does his or her part in controlling the gun.

To the O.P., best of luck with your 638. It's one of my favorite J-frames.

 

[ispcapt]

Not likely the 638. The J frame snubs are difficult to learn to shoot. Find someone who actually knows how to shoot a J frame, not just your buddy who has been shooting "30 years". 30 years of bad shooting fundamentals is just someone who has been reinforcing bad practices and really isn't a shooter. The number of years a person has been shooting doesn't tell a thing and is no indication of a person's skill level. I don't know why people always want to blame the gun as being inaccurate when it's rarely the gun. As one of my early range instructors use to tell people who would said their gun wasn't accurate "There's a loose nut on the trigger that needs tightening."
Several years ago I was teaching a class when a guy in the class made the comment that J frames were inaccurate and "at 100 yards I'd stand there and let someone shoot at me all day." When we went to the range I got out my 49 loaded W-W 158 gr LSWCHP+P. That 49 had been shot a lot and was developing a bit of end shake. I set up a silhouette at 100 years. 2 handed standing unsupported I fired 5 rounds at the target. All 5 rounds hit COM. The guy claiming J frames were inaccurate blew it off as a fluke and said I couldn't do it again. 5 more rounds at 100 yards and 5 more hits COM.
The point being J frames are very accurate. In that guys case it wasn't J frames that couldn't hit anything at 100 yards. It was him that couldn't hit anything at 100 yards.
Instead of wasting your time sending it back to S&W buy a lot more ammo and find a qualified instructor. Remember - the other guy who has been shooting 30 years doesn't mean he knows how to shoot either, just that he's been burning ammo for 30 years. One has nothing to do with the other.

 

[dogdoc]

Define inaccurate? Groups off sand bags at what distance? With a snub j frame off of bags I would likely use 15 yards rather than my usual 25 yard. What kind of groups are you getting and with what ammo?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[haywood]

Dry fire practice. When your gun stays steady and your sights stay on target, then your ready for the Range. The dry fire will help you learn Grip, sight alignment, and trigger pull. At the Range start close until you get acceptable accuracy then move the target out.

 

[murphydog]

A few more details, please?

What exactly was the nature of the inaccuracy, consistently off center or random patterns? At what distances? SA or DA? Type of .38 Special round used, or more than one? Material and type of grips/stocks? Do you shoot other revolvers better? And (as asked above) did anyone else shoot it with the same results?

Finally, do you have a gun safe in your coconut frond hut?

 

[Webreaker41]

Check the muzzle crown. Polishing this improved my 642.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[JH1951]

As stated above, a few more particulars will help us to help you.
What is your definition of 'inaccurate'? And for that matter, how do you define accurate? Distances and size of targets will help us to formulate an answer. My J-frames are 'accurate' enough for my intended use, but they are certainly not target pistols by any means.
As for lasers, they were great for me as a training tool - they showed me how my grip/stance, etc were deficient. I do not use them any longer.
The J-frame is most often pretty accurate, but expectations may vary as well.

 

[Doug M.]

In the grand scheme, a J frame snub is going to be capable of essentially the same mechanical accuracy as a nice K or N frame. The variation between any two examples of each model is likely to be as great as that between a J, K, L, and N. HOWEVER, the issues are as "ispcapt" described them. From an ergonomic viewpoint, the J frame snub is sub-optimal by a staggering amount. Under the best possible conditions, it is a BUG only for 99+% of all users and uses, what one sharp LE trainer referred to as a "get off me gun": used only at contact range, and as I recall, he carried it as a THIRD gun in uniform.

The trigger press is heavy compared to the weight of the firearm, so holding it steady is harder than it would be with a bigger frame. The sights are small and hard to see, so hard to align, and the same amount of error with that short barrel will be magnified at distance compared to a perceptible error on a longer barrel. The J frame snubby is an expert revolver shooter's firearm, not something to start on, or to expect to shoot well without a heck of a lot of work. I own one - but it is limited to such a narrow range of utility that I almost never carry it. Can I shoot it accurately at some distance? Yes. Is it at all worth the effort compared to other handguns? No. Shooting it accurately is a slow, frustrating process, with the horrid little sights made worse by my aging eyes (that sucked a lot anyway).

 

[ABPOS]

I think the question about what you are defining as inaccurate it appropriate. What are you comparing it to?

There's not doubt that I shoot bigger guns better cuz they're just easier to shoot better. But there's also no doubt that if I did my part, it would shoot. I've had a few good session with my 442 but it is a hard gun to shoot accurately for me. I feel like it's "good enough" and I keep trying to get better.

But there are a couple of things working against shooting it well for me.

#1 Sights. Very short sight radius, a little too close to my eyes to be clear. Plus, when you line up the front sight with the rear trench, it's flush, there isn't much left there to look at. I have my front painted white because I want to see it fast. But black would probably be a better target sight picture for accuracy.

#2. Trigger. Mine is HEAVY. It has lightened up a little with a lot of dry fire. And some oil. But it's still HEAVY. I can see why people go for the apex kit in this and I'm betting it would make a difference. For me, I lean towards leaving it stock cuz I don't want light primer strikes.

#3, the weight of an Airweight works against you when shooting. It makes managing recoil harder, easier to flinch. And even when your just pulling the trigger, the light weight of the frame I think makes it move a bit more than a heavier gun. I really have to pull slow to do the whole "don't make the gun move at all" thing. And its not something I can do often. To me the whole put a dime on top the front sight and not have it fall is next to impossible for me.

This is about as good as I've ever done. I have one other time I did well too. A lot of times I'm not that good and that's only 7 yards. Which grip I have on there has mad differences to me too. The hogue tamers I shoot the best with, but I have the factory rubber boot grips on there now. I'm OK witth those. I tried some pachmyrs and I sucked with those on. BAD. Not sure why.

For some reason I can't locate the picture of my groups I was thinking of... I'll look later.... IMGUR is choking up. Everyone is on line in my house.

 

[yep380]

J snubs are not difficult to shoot, but they can be difficult to shoot well. The short barrel accentuates any flinches or movement at the moment of firing.

I have a M38 (i.e. same as a 438, just older and no +P rating) that is extremely accurate fired single-action. I can easily hit a paper plate from 30-40 yards in a crouched or otherwise supported position with this gun. Double-action slow fired, I'm good out to about 10 yards.

I've also owned a couple 438s over the years and found them to have similar accuracy to my M38.

Also, a couple things to think about:

1. Grip - Being right handed, I grasp with my right hand first. On the left side of the grip, the pinkie tip is angled up from the bottom edge at about 45 degrees. The right thumb angles downward about 190 degrees and into the top rear portion of the grip (try to stay away from the cylinder release, which loves to skin thumbs). The left hand wraps the right and the left thumb is pointed down at a similar angle (i.e. NOT forward as with a semi-auto). Use the right hand to squeeze front-to-back and the left hand squeezes side-to-side, squishing the side and fingers of the right hand into the gun.

2. Dry-fire practice - With an unloaded and double-checked empty gun, practice that grip. Aim at a point in a safe direction and dry fire the weapon (use snap caps if you have 'em). Try this with both single-action and double-action. Observe the front sight - did it move when you fired? Practice until it doesn't move.

I hope you get it sorted; I'm a big fan of the humpbacks!

 

[ABPOS]

Found my accuracy testing. Slow fire 7 yards. Double action for both. You can see the difference..... I think like yep380 says, past 10 yards and I'm not sure I'm shooting "groups" I have tested at 25 yards and hit 8 out of 10 shots on a shilhouette but missed with those 2.... So.... I've got work to do. But with that Model 19 I can do a heck of a lot better at 25 yards. Same with my Browning HiPower. At 30 yards I can hit pieces of clay pretty regularly with both. With my 442, my friend joked with me, are you trying to hit around that piece in a circle? LOL. He was serious he thought I was doing that on purpose. I was trying to hit the darned thing. I do find that I have a tenancy to shoot better at pieces of clay pigeons as apposed to trying to make a nice group. With just about any handgun. I don't know why other than aim small, miss small.

That's another thing. I'm almost always shooting high right with the 442. And I'm 99 percent sure it's me. I never get the front sight down as far as it really should be. And the right is me wrestling with the 13# trigger.

The thing is, I'm confident I could put rounds on a man sized target at 7 yards and probably farther. Not sure how much of a difference stress would make, but I have shot things under stress before (deer and small game, deer really is the only time I get stressed though, buck fever as they call it)

 

[OttoLoader]

Accuracy bad due to incomplete manufacturing of the barrel.
I bought a new 60-14 in Jan 2009.
I have been shooting S&Ws since the 1970s and know how to shoot them well.
Anyway as this was new I bench rest sand bag shot to 5 yd and 10 yds.
The result looked like a shotgun pattern.
At 5 yds the spread was random about six inches in dia.
Unacceptable and compare to my 686 which is dead on.

Took the 60 home and clean and inspect.
Using a light and manifier the rifling and crown was shiny but not complete rough manufacturing process and was rough, looked like it was wrinkled appearance.
Called S&W customer service. Gave the rep the model and serial no. He right away sent out a mailer.
S&W replaced the barrel.
Tested at the range
5 yd two hand standing double action shot a "cloverleaf" group.
Sand bag bench rest just as good as the 686.

This was the only gun that had this problem, incomplete barrel made it to final assembly.
Appearance with naked eye looked good but rifling and crown surface finish was bad. Made the revolver unsatisfactory.
I still have it and it is dead on with a nice factory trigger too.

 

[max503]

If I try real hard my S&W 638 will hit a coffee mug at 50 feet.
At other times I have trouble keeping it on an 8-1/2 x 11 sheet of paper.

 

[ABPOS]

And FWIW, I'm not saying it's for sure the user and not the gun. But you didn't tell us if you normally shoot J frames well. It seemed like maybe this was your first J frame from the original post.

It could very well be a hardware problem. But I would try to rule out the user part first by letting someone shoot it that can shoot J frames well. If you know of such a person. I suppose a guy like that might be hard to find. LOL.

 

[AZretired]

The OP did say it was his first J frame. I agree he should have someone better aquainted with J frames shoot it and go from there.

Sent from my BNTV450 using Tapatalk

 

[OttoLoader]

Be systematic and objective about determining that cause of poor acuracy.
I see that most of the time it is the shooters technique, yet sometimes it really is the gun.
So do some shooting test to eliminate or minimize human error and have some other experienced shooters try it out.
If it appears to be hardware then call S&W or have a local qualified gunsmith inspect it.
If not that then work on your technique.

 

[max503]

Just shot this group with my S&W 638. Fifty feet, single action, two-handed, no rest. 148 grain DEWC, 3.5 grains of Unique. I have small hands.