Possible Aircrewman (PICS ADDED)

[hunterdeneugene]

May buddy just recently came into what I believe to be an authentic Aircrewman. It has the markings on the backstrap, SN C260XXX. He said the guy he bought it from gave him a letter with it, which I am hoping is from Roy Jinks. Is there a database where I can determine if it is real? If it is a Roy Jinks letter then I am assuming it probably is. A couple pics...

 

[shamuscull]

Very nice. Thanks for sharing

 

[ordnanceguy]

Hunter:

Yes, a couple of members of the S&WCA have a Database on the AC revolvers. It includes both known legit and known illegitimate examples by serial number. However, it will be of little use unless you can post the entire serial number.

It is also worth remembering that a factory letter is not really a guarantee of authenticity. What a factory letter does is provide the factory data on a given serial number. If the serial number on a gun has been faked then all the factory letter can do is provide the details on that number. It can't tell one if the gun is legit or not, and in the world of Aircrewman revolvers there are, unfortunately, a number of fakes including some well executed examples.

My suggestion is that you post the complete serial and some additional, quality photos of the top strap markings, butt and good shots of both sides. Without those it is very difficult for anyone to say with certainty that the gun is right or wrong.

HTH.

 

[hunterdeneugene]

whats the value on this weapon if it is determined to be real? Out of my price range being a legitimate answer....

 

[hunterdeneugene]

The full SN is C260900. I'll post pics when he send them to me.

 

[TAROMAN]

 

[g8rb8]

Disclaimer: I am not a USAF M-13, i.e. The Aircrewman, expert.

More experienced S&W Forum members will be along.

You might expect to show more pictures and/or answer more questions to get the fullest possible answer.

My first question to myself and the more experienced S&W Forum members is shouldn't there be AIRCREWMAN stamped on the right side of the barrel above 38 SPECIAL CTG ?

Is "Revolver, Lightweight, M 13" stamped on the top strap?

Pictures of the inside of the yoke and the frame opposite the yoke would be interesting.

 

[19leben]

Some of the early Aircrewman revolvers have the bug screw as seen in the first picture.
Also, the barrel right side could read Aircrewman, above the caliber marking, but there were quite a few changes during production history, according to my SC of S&W 4th and the word "Aircrewman" may have been omitted on some. The SN given is correct for the M13 as well.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[kwill1911]

It does not appear in my database which I believe to be as complete as anyone's. From what I can see it may very well be genuine but, as Charlie points out, we need more pictures, especially of the top strap. There are quite a few variations on Aircrewman revolvers and, no, this variation would not have "Aircrewman" on the barrel.
Regards,
Kevin Williams

 

[hunterdeneugene]

here are some more pics

 

[hunterdeneugene]

one more pic

 

[kwill1911]

This may be helpful: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...volvers.html?highlight=aircrewman+cheat+sheet

 

[19leben]

How about a picture of the recoil shield?

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[kwill1911]

Wrong SN series. See the link posted above.

 

[19leben]

How is it wrong SN series? I don't see it.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[kwill1911]

Did you read the information at the link? Only the earliest prototype guns with A.F. No. on the butt had barrels so marked. The 40,000 guns ordered with 'C' serial numbers do NOT have "Aircrewman" on the barrels.

 

[19leben]

Okay, I'm not sure what question or statement you were responding to.
Yes, I read the link info. I still don't get what point you are attempting to make.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[hunterdeneugene]

I'm going to check the gun out in person this weekend.

 

[Combat]

looks like it's marked like mine

 

[hardcase60]

hunterdeneugene,

Out of curiosity do you know what is stamped on the right side of the barrel? The only pic of the right side has the barrel at an angle where I personally couldn't discern what it says. No big deal, just wondering. Thanks, hardcase60

 

[hunterdeneugene]

38 SPL. CTG. is the only thing on RT side of barrel

 

[hardcase60]

38 SPL. CTG. is the only thing on RT side of barrel

Hummmmmm. Thank you sir. hardcase60

 

[hunterdeneugene]

Got my hand on it today. Cylinder is not magnetic so I assume since SN matches it is original, as are all other markings in other places. From what Ive seen, read and been told I think this is an original gun, I don't think its been fired and seems to be about 95-98%, because of a few handling marks.

 

[hunterdeneugene]

here are some more pics.

 

[hunterdeneugene]

and he sent for a letter....

 

[model3sw]

This may be helpful: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...volvers.html?highlight=aircrewman+cheat+sheet

What Kevin and others might be addressing is to proceed with caution.

The scarcity of the genuine survivors is so small that it has attracted some very impressive impostors. There is a distinct possibility that a commercial model had been re-worked to falsely resemble the genuine U.S. Air Force Aircrewman. Therefore, it WOULD letter from S&W as shipped to the USAF, however, it must pass the cautious inspection of a knowledgeable collector, down to some serious measurement comparisons.

Some where reconstructed De-Milled versions. Others were completely fabricated from a commercial model skillfully worked and restamped with a valid US AirForce serial number of a de-milled unit.

On the post noted above you will see one of those with the cylinder obviously reworked in a less than professional manner.

I'm certain that ALL of us are rooting for you to truly have found one more of these greatly coveted, genuine, USAF M13s.

 

[bigwagon]

I don't know what a real one is supposed to look like, but the font and spacing in the word "Lightweight" is very different in the photos of the two revolvers posted in this thread.

 

[hardcase60]

I really don't know why I've taken an interest in this thread other than the mystery value which for me is high. Based on Kevin's list of attributes for the Aircrewman of suspect guns vintage, I made the below comparisons.

• C prefix serial numbers (~40,000) AF Contract No: DA-19-059-ORD-1546
o 5 screw KA frames, some with 6th bug screw. (Applicable)
o 4 screw KA frames later (1st observed is C269249).
o Bolster bushing dropped at some point. (Applicable to suspect model)
o PROPERTY OF U.S. AIR FORCE on back strap. (Applicable)
o U.S. only on back strap towards end of production. C402350 1st observed. (N/Applicable)
o A few unaltered revolvers have been observed with no back strap markings. (N/Applicable)
o C prefix serial number on butt. No A.F. No. The six digits of the commercial serial number were stamped on the flat on the bottom of the barrel, on the rear face of the cylinder, on the front of the extractor star, and on the rear face of the yoke. (Current pics show three out of the five) Although I may have missed something.
o A matching four-digit assembly number was applied to the left side of the frame opposite the yoke, on the yoke opposite the frame, and inside the side plate.(Current pics only show one of the three locations) Pics of the suspect gun don't show the yoke opposite the frame, nor inside the side plate.
o Standard S&W medallions in stocks, right stock serial numbered. (Not Yet Addressed)
o REVOLVER, LIGHT WEIGHT, M 13 on top strap. (Applicable)
o Spaces taken out around C277238 (1st observed). (Not Applicable for S/N)
o .38 SPL. CTG. on right side of barrel. (Applicable)
o SMITH & WESSON on left side of barrel. (Applicable)
o Barrel markings reverse at about C367647 (1st observed). (Not Applicable for S/N)
o P factory proof mark above the front of the trigger guard on the left side. (Applicable)
o 3 variations of thumb latch. (Suspect gun thumb latch not ruled out)
o Blue/anodized black finish. (Applicable)

I don't see anything that currently rules the suspect gun totally out of being an authentic Aircrewman. Also taken into consideration is the serial number range provided in the Roy Jinks letter. Note: I going to presume that all Aircrewman had alloy cylinders as does the suspect gun. Question: Based on what we know about the suspect gun what is the definitive proof? hardcase60

 

[hunterdeneugene]

right stock is numbered to the gun

 

[hardcase60]

I don't know what to tell you, me personally is still a little skeptical. That being said the obvious signs are pointing to it being real. It needs a professional pay for look see. Read that as appraisal. In the mean time if it were mine it would be in a safe deposit box. LOL