Post 2000 J-Frame Gunsmithing

[ogilvyspecial]

Ok, I'm getting ready to start working on my revolvers, smoothing things up, changing out springs etc. and have a pretty good feel for what that entails.

I've been able to find books & DVD's that covers the older S&W's, pre-MIM etc. but so far haven't been able to find much, if anything about the newer smith's, especially when it comes to J-Frames.

I know a lot of what applies to the K, L & N frames applies to the J but was wondering if there is something out there that will spell things out in greater detail on the newer J's.

What finally made me take the plunge, something I've been wanting to do for some time now, is a 642 from about 2008 that I get occasional light primer strikes on. I could send it back to S&W but wouldn't learn anything by doing that with my goal being to become somewhat self-sufficent when it comes to minor repairs if the need ever arose and sending off a gun to get it fixed, or taking it to someone else, wasn't an option.

I've already replaced the mainspring keeping the stock 8.5 lb. weight so my next step is going to be replacing the firing pin with one that's a little longer, like the one offered by Cylinder & Slide. I could try a 9 lb mainspring but after doing a lot of searching & reading I've come to the conclusion that a longer firing pin might be my best bet.

Any good references in line with what I'm looking for out there?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

 

[Double-O-Dave]

Sorry, Ogilvyspecial, I've got nothing for you. The only J-frame I have that is of "modern" heritage is my Model 432PD with the MIM parts and IL. I have a DVD from AGI (American Gunsmithing Institute) covering S&W revolvers, but it lost a ton of credibility when one of the presenters - who is a "gunsmith" - used a screwdriver to pry the sideplate off of the frame (still gives me the willies). I'm wondering if the only source of the information you are seeking would be an LEO Armorer/Gunsmith?

Best of luck,

Dave

 

[H Richard]

I know of no J Frame specific gunsmithing video's or books. The internal workings of J Frames are so similar to K,N,L Frames that youshould have no problems. Go to You-Tube and view all the disassembly etc video's for a good start. The Jerry Miculek video on Trigger Job is also excellent.

 

[folkenheath]

I agree with Richard, the Miculek video showed me everything I needed to know to take them apart and work on them. Make sure you get a good set of screwdrivers, I like the brownells tips.

 

[ogilvyspecial]

I have a DVD from AGI (American Gunsmithing Institute) covering S&W revolvers, but it lost a ton of credibility when one of the presenters - who is a "gunsmith" - used a screwdriver to pry the sideplate off of the frame (still gives me the willies).

Thanks Dave, I've had the AGI offering for a few years now and flinch every time I watch him pry that sideplate off.

The curious thing about that is, from what I've heard elsewhere, that guy is supposed to be a very good Gunsmith.

 

[ogilvyspecial]

Go to You-Tube and view all the disassembly etc video's for a good start. The Jerry Miculek video on Trigger Job is also excellent.

Thanks H Richard! I have both of Jerry's DVD's but noticed that those looked to be older, maybe from the 90's? I also have Teddy Jacobson's disassembly & cleaning DVD, but that one may also be from the 90's. I just wanted to make sure that I had the most current info out there to work on the newer guns.

In the very first You Tube video I clicked on I watched the guy take a screwdriver to the sideplate. At least he took the time to add a pop up box telling how to do it right. Ever since seeing that I've been a little leery about relying on Joe Blow the gunsmith for advice.

My concern is that I might "learn" things that I have to "un-learn" later and maybe do some damage in the process. A well-respected, reliable, up to date resource is what I was hoping to find. I know I have it right here, this Site, but was hoping to find a "stand alone" resource that didn't require the inter-net.



Thanks for the response fokenheath, I already have the Brownell's screwdriver set, as well as various other gunsmithing tools that I've used on different types of guns. Now it's time to step up and learn a little more about the Smith's. Actually I've already done quite a bit of the learning, now it's time for the doing part of it.

 

[Tyrod]

Ok, I'm getting ready to start working on my revolvers, smoothing things up, changing out springs etc. and have a pretty good feel for what that entails.

I've been able to find books & DVD's that covers the older S&W's, pre-MIM etc. but so far haven't been able to find much, if anything about the newer smith's, especially when it comes to J-Frames.

I know a lot of what applies to the K, L & N frames applies to the J but was wondering if there is something out there that will spell things out in greater detail on the newer J's.

What finally made me take the plunge, something I've been wanting to do for some time now, is a 642 from about 2008 that I get occasional light primer strikes on. I could send it back to S&W but wouldn't learn anything by doing that with my goal being to become somewhat self-sufficent when it comes to minor repairs if the need ever arose and sending off a gun to get it fixed, or taking it to someone else, wasn't an option.

I've already replaced the mainspring keeping the stock 8.5 lb. weight so my next step is going to be replacing the firing pin with one that's a little longer, like the one offered by Cylinder & Slide. I could try a 9 lb mainspring but after doing a lot of searching & reading I've come to the conclusion that a longer firing pin might be my best bet.

Any good references in line with what I'm looking for out there?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

You might have a wadded up firing pin spring. Light primer strikes from the factory aren't unheard of, but they are rare. I like to start out by thinking that the gun was correct from the factory and is in need of repair. Going to a heavier mainspring or longer firing pin may just mask the real issue. In the end if you have to go to aftermarket parts to repair your revolver then fine. You'll at least know that the remainder is top notch.

 

[ogilvyspecial]

You might have a wadded up firing pin spring. Light primer strikes from the factory aren't unheard of, but they are rare. I like to start out by thinking that the gun was correct from the factory and is in need of repair. Going to a heavier mainspring or longer firing pin may just mask the real issue. In the end if you have to go to aftermarket parts to repair your revolver then fine. You'll at least know that the remainder is top notch.

I hear ya on making sure things are as they should be.

I did have a local gunsmith, who has worked S&W's for years give it a once over and he recommended going back to a stock spring. This gun did have a 8 lb. mainspring in it for awhile. The stock spring currently in this gun, which was a new one that the local GS gave me and not the original, still gave me light primer strikes.

For a while I thought it might be an ammo issue but it does this with different factory loads. Get a light primer strike, reload 4 new rounds and the LPS round and it does it again on the same round, no matter how many times I try it. Take the LPS round out and try it in another gun & it goes bang every time.

I could go back to the local guy and have him remedy the situation, which he would do for free since I know him well enough, but I'm wanting to use this opportunity to at least try and learn a few things without bothering him. Someday I may need him for something else that will be out of my league and I don't want to use up any of his time on things I may be able to handle myself. Who knows, irregardless of what he said before this may be one of those times.

 

[ogilvyspecial]

One other thing, if I do try a longer firing pin is Apex the way to go? After doing some searching I've found that the one offered by Cylinder & Slide seemed to have fit issues and reports of breakage, but this information is from older threads so these issues may have been addressed by C&S.

I noticed that the Apex also comes with a new spring but my intention is to always stick with stock S&W parts whenever possible, so, if the original spring looks good, I would re-install it or pick up a new S&W spring.

 

[scooter123]

I would suggest that you go with an Apex Tactical firing pin instead of the one from Cylinder & Slide. The C&S firing pin is more appropriate to use with a lightened trigger and it's use with a factory or heavier mainspring can lead to pierced primers. The issue with the C&S firing pin is that it's designed with an extended travel capability in addition to being longer.

Before I tuned the trigger on my 610-3 to a bit more than 8 lbs. I tried the C&S firing pin with the mainspring set to full factory tension. The result was that a full 30% of the fired casings showed evidence of blowback thru the primers. Closer examination showed that those primers all had microscopic cracks in the dimples. Later on I tuned the 610 to a 9 lbs. DA trigger and the cracking dissapeared, however about a month ago I had the firing pin stick in a primer when shooting it in single action. Took about 5 minutes of gently rocking the cylinder back and forth to get the firing pin to pop free. Also had issues with light strikes immediately after this happened and suspect the firing pin return spring is now a bit wadded up. Now, the 610 is sitting waiting for new springs to become available from Brownell's.

BTW, I've been running the C&S firing pin in my 620 and 625 without issues, however both revolvers have the DA trigger pull tuned to 8 lbs. even. Based on my experience, the C&S firing pin works well for a revolver that's been tuned for a light DA trigger, however I cannot recomend it's use with a trigger set to full factory power.

I'll also note that I don't have any J frames so that 8 lbs. trigger pull is for the larger L and N frames. So, I can't even guess on how light you'd have to set the trigger on a J frame. I have no doubt that it'll be considerably higher than the larger frame sizes due to the reduction in mechanical advantage with the smaller parts in the J frames.

Now, in regards to Apex Tactical, they've just gone through the process of developing a full kit for the J frames and that is who I recomend for getting your components. That way you'll get a complete package that has been tested in these guns for both reliability and problem free results. No, you won't be able to get an 8 lbs. trigger but from what I've seen that just isn't possible with the J frames, the leverage surfaces on the hammer are just too close to the pivot.

PS; I've actually measured both the factory and Cylinder & Slide firing pins. Below you'll find pics of the results. Note, the overall length for the C&S firing in is 0.510 inch. Then compare it to Apex Tactical's offerings of which they have 2, one at 0.495 inch and one at 0.500 inch.

 

[ogilvyspecial]

Thanks scooter123!

Your posts are always so informative!!

 

[Tyrod]

You didn't mention what J frame model you have.

 

[ogilvyspecial]

You didn't mention what J frame model you have.

Model 642 Tyrod.

Later edited to add: I had what I was looking for all along.
In the DVD I got from Teddy Jacobson dealing with S&W disassembly & reassembly
he demonsrates on an older N Frame & a newer (MIM era) J Frame.
It had been months since I watched it last and had simply forgotten that he covered it.