Post-war transition N-frame length

[19leben]

I now have two early post-war Transition Heavy Duty revolvers with 4" barrel. My first one came with later Magnas and they're about a sixteenth inch too short. The second pistol was obtained with the original, SN marked stocks and fit perfectly. I'm looking to replace the short ones, which I believe is going to be difficult. Can anyone here tell me when S&W changed the pre/early post N frame to the current shorter length? Like, at what serial number did they "run out" of the pre-war frames? Asking because I'm finding stocks advertised as early post war but the serial numbers stamped into the right stock bely the "early" part of seller's description.
I'm very open to sambar stag, but no idea how to find the "correct" length. Pics attached for reference.

 

[Vtgw938]

You got me curious and I don't have your answer. But I did some searching on the SWCA Ship Date Request Forum by serial # in the S60000 range and like yours the earliest ship date was July of 1946. So I think you may have one of the earliest post war N frames (shipped gun at least).

I didn't search extensively but I didn't find a non S pre-fix shipped after WWII. Would they have made frames pre-war and not put a serial # on them and then use them after the war at which time they would stamp them with the S pre-fix numbers??

Also, sellers may be referencing early post war stocks based on the sharp shoulder.

Looking forward to more knowledgeable answers.

 

[paplinker]

I do not know the exacts on these but most all I ever see are under the S 72xxx serial range.

Try looking at the back of your numbered trans set and a later post war set together and notice the distance from the grip pin hole and the bottom edge of the grip. I find the trans sets are further from the bottom edge. That kind of leads me to conclude the extra 1/8 of longer frame is below that pin.

Using my thought when I see N stags or ivory I really take notice of how large that gap looks.

 

[22hipower]

I'm very open to sambar stag, but no idea how to find the "correct" length. Pics attached for reference.

Ken Driscoll (bigmtnman) will make you a great set that will fit perfectly in elk or maybe moose. The ones on this pre-war HD would fit yours.

You want the prewar N frame stock length, and yes, the correct post war ones of that length are not all that easy to find.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

https://flic.kr/p/2oXhoKJ https://www.flickr.com/photos/194934231@N03/

 

[Photog]

The two M1917's I have owned both had longer grip frames. I tried to put modern magnas on one and the frame was below the bottom of the stocks. These were magnas from the early 1950's until the late 1970's.

 

[The Gila Bender]

As my accumulation of transitional 1946-1949 N-frames progressed I started buying post-war magna stocks in the 63xxx-72xxx range and test fitting them to frames that did not have their original stocks. It was hit or miss. My experience is that magnas in the 63xxx-68xxx (1946-47) had the greatest variance. My only suggestion is that you search for numbered magnas with serial numbers in the ballpark of the N-frame you're trying to fit.

 

[DARE]

I know that Curtis Harlow and Keith Brown have made wood grips for pre-war N frames. Have heard that Curtis has a two year backlog and it not taking new work, not sure if getting grips from Keith is a possibility. Lots of grip makers will have a pre-war N frame on hand so they get the length right.

 

[The Gila Bender]

Get friendly with other transition-period N-frame collectors. I'll just bet that a large proportion of us have a set of magnas that don't quite fit and would be willing to trade or sell.

 

[22hipower]

Get friendly with other transition-period N-frame collectors. I'll just bet that a large proportion of us have a set of magnas that don't quite fit and would be willing to trade or sell.

Good idea. . .and hope so, that someone has some. I have a transitional OD that badly needs a set.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[chiefdave]

Grashorn is another source of stocks for prewar N frames.

 

[ussmanlovede36]

I have a S&W HD with the prewar grip frame length serial # S 7522x. The S&W book says 1950-51. I would like to know when S&W changed to the slightly shorter grip frame. My grips are post war and they are about a 1/16 of an inch short.

 

[The Gila Bender]

Grashorn is another source of stocks for prewar N frames.

I sent this .44HE 3rd, S68764, shipped 11/7/47, to Patrick Grashorn to be hand-fitted with his stag stocks. This one is special as it's my very first .44HE 3rd Model, acquired from our friend Dan Meigs in 2008.

 

[19leben]

I removed the stocks from both my HDs and measured the difference of .04” when measuring the space between the locator pin and bottom of the stock. I also tried the longer ones on the earlier gun, and the fit for length was closer, but at weird angles. I would have thought that the frames would be more alike but apparently they were finished at odd angles.

 

[19leben]

I sent this .44HE 3rd, S68764, shipped 11/7/47, to Patrick Grashorn to be hand-fitted with his stag stocks. This one is special as it's my very first .44HE 3rd Model, acquired from our friend Dan Meigs in 2008.

View attachment 701628 View attachment 701627 View attachment 701629 View attachment 701630

This seems to be my best avenue toward best fitting grips, and aesthetics for my modified HD. I have reached out to Grashorn. Thanks Tom!

Hugh

 

[handejector]

As my accumulation of transitional 1946-1949 N-frames progressed I started buying post-war magna stocks in the 63xxx-72xxx range and test fitting them to frames that did not have their original stocks. It was hit or miss. My experience is that magnas in the 63xxx-68xxx (1946-47) had the greatest variance. My only suggestion is that you search for numbered magnas with serial numbers in the ballpark of the N-frame you're trying to fit.

I second that suggestion! See below.

I removed the stocks from both my HDs and measured the difference of .04” when measuring the space between the locator pin and bottom of the stock. I also tried the longer ones on the earlier gun, and the fit for length was closer, but at weird angles. I would have thought that the frames would be more alike but apparently they were finished at odd angles.

It took me years to find the Grail gun for my 44 collection- a Transition 44-3rd Model TARGET. I finally found one, but it was wearing a pair of beat up, non-diamond K frame targets. I needed those grips like a needed an odd brick. During the haggling (I was buying three guns form the guy) I told him to keep the grips if it would help on the deal. He did.

At the time I acquired it, I had about a dozen N frame Transition guns on hand with original grips. I was not going to rob any of those guns, but out of curiosity I tried every pair on my prize. Not one pair was even close to a decent fit!

I had to have a fitted pair made.

 

[lestert357]

View attachment 701598I have a S&W HD with the prewar grip frame length serial # S 7522x. The S&W book says 1950-51. I would like to know when S&W changed to the slightly shorter grip frame. My grips are post war and they are about a 1/16 of an inch short.

After the war S&W returned the .357 Magnum revolver to full production in November 1949 when the first orders of short action revolvers shipped from the company's new Roosevelt Avenue factory to Evaluators Limited, Quantico, Virginia, for various police departments. Serial numbers for these guns started with S75514. Edit to add: These guns had the shorter grip frame.

The earlier Transitional .357 Magnums are all numbered in the S71XXX and early S72XXX range.

 

[22hipower]

After the war S&W returned the .357 Magnum revolver to full production in November 1949 when the first orders of short action revolvers shipped from the company's new Roosevelt Avenue factory to Evaluators Limited, Quantico, Virginia, for various police departments. Serial numbers for these guns started with S75514. The earlier Transitional .357 Magnums are all numbered in the S71XXX and early S72XXX range.

Is there any documented history, or undocumented for that matter, of how/why S&W used some prewar 357 Magnum barrels on transitional Outdoorsmans? As I understand it there aren't many of those and the two I know about are S69800 and S69805. Wonder why S&W would have used any of them to assemble post war Outdoorsmans if they intended to make actual 357 Magnums?

Jeff
SWCA #1457