Powders for short barrel

[kmonroe99]

Looking for low flash, low recoil powders for 38 Spl M 686 2.5" barrel. This would be for range use. I've got some HP38 and some Trail Boss I use for cowboy pistols.

 

[LittleCooner]

just beginning to look for the same stuff. Only experience here came from late yesterday afternoon of playing with Unique and 155 gr SWC lead bullets. Two inch barrel chronographed at exactly 700 fps and same load in a 4 1/4 inch barrel at 805 fps. The Unique is dirty as everyone said and I did not like the ES on this stuff, but the accuracy was great. 15 yards with the 2" Cobra was shooting around 3-4 inch groups from the bench. I was impressed. I had 5 158 gr wadcutters that I droped in the mix of reloads and they shot a great group for the 4 1/4 inch barrel gun. I started with 4.5 grains of some new Alliant Unique for these loads. Recoil was very pleasant.

I am sure some of these long time loaders will add to the thread on great loads.

 

[John P.]

My 2.5 inch M-66 likes a 158 SWC over 3.7 grains of HP38. Nice range load.

 

[Ole Joe Clark]

Unique or Bullseye

 

[Vortec MAX]

Bullseye came to mind for me as well, but as for Unique... I think you will find that Unique performs poorly in short barrels... unless you want to use a magnum primer.

Mike

 

[kmonroe99]

I should add that for cowboy guns (Vaquero 4.6" barrel) I currently use Trail Boss and 147 grain TC bullets. Makes for a nice, light load.

I'm looking for something that would be better for a defensive or house load in the 686. Bullet/powder recommendations appreciated. I haven't tried a HP38 reload at dusk or low light conditions to see what it's like.

Looking for low flash, low recoil powders for 38 Spl M 686 2.5" barrel. This would be for range use. I've got some HP38 and some Trail Boss I use for cowboy pistols.

 

[hollywood63]

Bullseye came to mind for me as well, but as for Unique... I think you will find that Unique performs poorly in short barrels... unless you want to use a magnum primer.

Mike

New to the game fill me in on magnum primers and unique. Figuring the magnum primer will burn the powder more efficient?

 

[Collo Rosso]

I load 158gn. LSWC's with standard primers in 357mag or 38spl brass with WST. Load data is on Hodgdon's web site. Low recoil, dead accurate out of a 4" barrel. Don't know about the flash, never shot them at night or low light. Fast powder so it should do well in a short barrel. My wife and daughter will shoot them all day long out of my 686. They ask "load any of our bullets?".

 

[retired_diver]

My vote is for using faster powders. I have used AA#2 it seems to shoot great and meters like water.

 

[Vortec MAX]

New to the game fill me in on magnum primers and unique. Figuring the magnum primer will burn the powder more efficient?

I'm not sure what it is about Unique and short barrels, but the powder will not burn completely. There will be quite a bit of unburnt powder still in the cases and all over everything. The velocities were pretty low in the 38 SPL snubbie I was using too. The velocity spreads were huge... the best load was 102 FPS spread, and the worst was 169 FPS spread. Magnum primers would provide a more complete burn and raised the velocity by 50 to 60 FPS in the snubbie on my test loads. Even with magnum primers, the velocity spreads were still high. I think there are better powders to use if you have a short barrel.

Mike

 

[LittleCooner]

Thanks guys, from my end. So that huge spread in velocity was from the unburned powder in the short barrel with the Unique. I decided I was going to look for something else to load the next batch. I was using standard primers and the ES in the 4 1/4 was more that I thought is should be for that gun.

 

[daardvark]

If your criteria is 38spl pressure + Minimal Flash + Range Use, you can achieve these with a fast burning powder. With a 2.5" barrel, you have to go even faster than Bullseye. Titegroup, W231 and Red Dot come to mind and will burn 98-100% in a short barrel. Each approaches 100% burn as you get within 10% of 38spl max pressure loads. Use Hodgdon's burn rate chart and find powders that are faster or similar to Titegroup and you can tweak flash.

To add in the low recoil constraint, you should lower bullet weight and velocity. The kind of powder doesn't matter, just use less and you will have less recoil. For range work, a 125gr XTP/FP bullet and 4.6gr Titegroup (1.55"COL) would be around 700fps. Certainly in cowboy range and should be mild in a 686. You could achieve very similar results with even less, 4.2gr, Red Dot. Use a cheap plated bullet instead of XTP and each round is quite inexpensive.

It will have some flash, but you are avoiding the large unburnt fireball slower powders produce. You do sacrifice some speed and it won't fill the case much so beware double charges. HP38 is fast but will always have some unburnt powder flash from your gun but not too bad. HP38 burns better at higher pressure so your HP38 would be a good "low flash" powder in a target 357 magnum loading.

Avoid magnum primers and fast powders. Magnum primers work best to evenly ignite a large column of powder. Think a full 357 magnum case of Lil'Gun or H110. A regular primer is more than enough to ignite any fast powder no matter how it is oriented in the case.

 

[Vortec MAX]

Thanks guys, from my end. So that huge spread in velocity was from the unburned powder in the short barrel with the Unique. I decided I was going to look for something else to load the next batch. I was using standard primers and the ES in the 4 1/4 was more that I thought is should be for that gun.

The inconsistent velocities are the result of inconsistent burn. The powder will burn more completely in some rounds and not so much in others.

In my testing, 5.3 grains of WIN 231 under a 125 GR plated bullet made a nice plinking load that had about the same energy as Federal American Eagle 130 GR FMJ stuff. If you have Bullseye powder, 4.8 grains of that under the same bullet made an equivalent load. Spreads were good on both loads, but better with the Bullseye. Both loads only need standard primers.

Mike

 

[BB57]

I use 3.2 grains of Red Dot under a 158 gr LSWC for a range load and it works well in all of my .38's and .357s.

In my 1 7/8" Model 36s it will generate 670 fps and it generates a whopping 675 fps in my 2 1/8" Model 60.

Going to 3.4 grains increases the velocity by about 30 fps if you're looking for a floor of 700 fps.

The same 3.2 grain load generates 725 fps in a 3" barrel, 748 fps in a 4" barrel, and 794 fps in a 6" barrel.

---

If you are looking for a decent short barrel .38 +p load, IMR 800X works well with 7.5 grains generating 929 fps with a 125 gr XTP in a 1 7/8" barrel, 951 fps in a 2 1/8" barrel, 1030 fps in a 3" barrel, 1100 fps in a 4" barrel and 1186 fps in a 6" barrel.

 

[alwslate]

Another vote for WST as a low flash and muzzle blast powder.

 

[rsrocket1]

You already know that Trail Boss works well for low recoil cowboy loads, why not try it for low recoil loads in your 686? The typical load is to use 70% full capacity of Trail Boss in the cartridge. Weigh that out and work down to where you like it. You should be able to easily work down to 2.5-3 grains and still get workable loads. If you want to save money, use the same load of Red Dot, Promo, Titewad or Clays.

Bullseye can work down in the 2.5-3 grain area, but you'll get lots of flakes flying out of that gun and if it is stainless, it will turn black pretty quickly. Unique will have a tough time burning as you go down in loads below about 4 grains.

Just make sure the bullet exits the barrel on each shot and don't use hollow points as there may be a (very low) risk of getting the jacket stuck while the lead still exits on ultra low loads. You don't want to waste those expensive bullets on punching paper anyway.

 

[rwsmith]

If not bullseye......

I'm finding Red Dot to be very useful and I'm liking it.

 

[Nevada Ed]

HP-38 works great with a 158 lead in the snub nose.
My 2" gets 587 to 816 fps with a cci500 primer.

Trail Boss kicks out from a low 570 to a standard 38 target
load of 648 fps.

The 148gr HBwc hits around 560 to 628 with both powders
with a light target loading with minimum recoil.

Good loading.