Pre 10 with USMC grips....legit?

[rogerwnuss]

Can anybody tell me what this is?
Got the lgs holding it for me, gonna get it regardless, just wondered if this actually is a flyers gun....

 

[tenntex32]

Looks like VMF8(something) possibly denoting a Marine Fighter Squadron of sorts.

The XO(something) would normally be an Executive Officer.

Anybody could have etched it and we would need clearer pics of the markings to help determine if it is a legit squadron number and XO name. (I cannot make out what is scribbled to the right of the XO.)

A factory letter may or may not shed more light on as to what it may or may not be.

 

[peter-paul]

Looks like "STUX". When I was in the Navy, this would have been a common nickname for the last name Stuckey.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

 

[tenntex32]

I haven't had much luck finding any info on VMF8.

I did see this though but it seems to conflict with a post-WWII C-prefix serial numbered revolver.........

"From 1920 to 1941, Marine flying squadrons were identified by one digit numbers."

Maybe a squadron held on to it's single number designation a little longer than expected after WWII?

I'll keep digging with regards to Marine Squadron VMF8 (Skull and Crossbones insignia.)

 

[DWalt]

The USMC usually did not stamp USMC on any of their small arms. Anyone with a stamp set could have done that. It might be very difficult to trace original USMC ownership, but you could get a historical letter ($100) saying where S&W first shipped it. This is one of those cases whether you do or don't buy the story. That gun looks like it has been painted black. Has it? I would suggest you be very cautious if the seller wants more than $400 for it.

You should check to see if the inside of the right grip panel is stamped with the same SN as the gun. The gun SN suggests a 1950 shipment, but the grips are from post-1952.

 

[Absalom]

A C 123- range serial would likely be 1950, so Korean War vintage. The marking is not standard. It looks like something privately carved into a personal sidearm. As was said already, anyone could have done that.

It’s a commercial M&P snubby; at that time Marine Corps aviators were still being issued standard Victorys if flying off carriers, or they had 1911s when land-based.

 

[tenntex32]

I can't help but wonder if that revolver was "borrowed" by the Marine Corps from the Navy's Jolly Roger Squadron which was established in 1952. (We were very good at "borrowing" things from the better funded Navy.) The "USMC" marking looks to be covering a previous obliterated marking. The "STUX" marking looks shallower than the other markings and I can't help but wonder if it too is scratched over a previously obliterated name.

I had no luck whatsoever coming up with any info for VMF8, and usually my google kung-foo skills are fairly decent.

Dale

 

[1-1917]

I have one that letters to the Marines. It is stamped U.S.Property on the back of the grip frame and has a lanyard ring. SN is in the C 265xxx area. Nothing on the grips. Mine is a standard 4" steel frame gun. That one almost looks like an aluminum frame.

 

[tenntex32]

Looks like the Jolly Roger skull and crossbones has been used by several Navy Squadrons at one time or another going back as early as 1943.

I did not know that. Seems like it has jumped from one squadron to another over the years.

 

[tenntex32]

I have one that letters to the Marines. It is stamped U.S.Property on the back of the grip frame and has a lanyard ring. SN is in the C 265xxx area. Nothing on the grips. Mine is a standard 4" steel frame gun. That one almost looks like an aluminum frame.

Have you created a thread about it yet? I'd love to see it.......assuming I haven't already.

Sounds familiar though.

 

[Absalom]

I have one that letters to the Marines. It is stamped U.S.Property on the back of the grip frame and has a lanyard ring. SN is in the C 265xxx area. Nothing on the grips. Mine is a standard 4" steel frame gun.

Yours belongs into a well-known distinct batch of post-Victorys which the USMC called “Officer’s Model”. They’re all 4-inchers and from a few years later than this gun.

This old thread has the details including a letter:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...ory-officers-model.html?300567=#post137043833

 

[tenntex32]

Yours belongs into a well-known distinct batch of post-Victorys which the USMC called “Officer’s Model”. They’re all 4-inchers and from a few years later than this gun.

This old thread has the details including a letter:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...ory-officers-model.html?300567=#post137043833

Thanks Abs, I thought I had seen them before. Good to refresh the particulars every now and then in case I ever run across just such an example in the wild.

 

[glowe]

I haven't had much luck finding any info on VMF8 . . .

VMF - Marine Fighter Squadron - This is one of the oldest squadron designation in the Marine Corps, in use until the 1970s when it was discontinued with the retirement of the Vought F-8 Crusader. Not finding any information on squadron 8?

 

[Waveski]

Your "pre model 10" is , in truth , an M&P or Military & Police.
Why not just call it by it's proper name?

 

[tenntex32]

I haven't had much luck finding any info on VMF8 . . .

VMF - Marine Fighter Squadron - This is one of the oldest squadron designation in the Marine Corps, in use until the 1970s when it was discontinued with the retirement of the Vought F-8 Crusader. Not finding any information on squadron 8?

I came up empty for any single digit VMF squadron designations even though it was said they did exist before restructuring squadron designators to triple digits in the early 1940s.

Maybe a more versed U.S. Marine aviation historian has access to the single-digit Marine squadron designators prior to the change?

 

[THE PILGRIM]

Here’s a well known Marine visiting the Air Force.
He just survived a fireball crash landing.

 

[tenntex32]

I just found this.............

"Squadron designations between 1920 and 1937:

Designator Full Name
VF Fighter Squadron
VJ Utility Squadron
VO Observation Squadron
VP Patrol Squadron
VS Scouting Squadron
During that period of time a squadron of the Marine Corps could be distinguished from a Navy squadron by a suffix letter "M".[7]

Thus, VF-2M stood for Marine Fighter Squadron Two, VO-8M stood for Marine Observation Squadron Eight, and so forth.

In 1937 the suffix letters in squadron designators were discontinued, and the letter "M" signifying the Marine Corps was moved into a fixed place after the "V". Designations of all existing Marine squadrons were changed accordingly: e.g., VF-2M became VMF-2."


Based on this information I would assume it would have originally been VF-8M which later became VMF-8 in 1937.(???) Then later in the 1940s it would have been converted to a 3-digit squadron numerical designator which I do not know.

Unfortunately squadron designators changed so much it is difficult to find the lineage of what VF-(?)M squadron became VMF-8 and then what 3-digit designator VMF-8 morphed into, assuming it didn't just disband along the way.

I'll keep digging. Unfortunately nothing really makes sense for "VMF8" to be on a 1950s era revolver unless the stocks are older than the gun they are on.

 

[tenntex32]

Unfortunately this is about as close as I have been able to come to VMF8. It details how squadron designation VF-8M came about and what it later became which was not VMF-8, but rather VMF-2.

"VMFA-211 can trace its lineage to 1 January 1937 when Marine Fighting Squadron 4 (VF-4M) was activated at Naval Air Station San Diego, California.[1] Although it was the second time a VF-4M had existed, the previous one was decommissioned in 1931 and it was not considered the same squadron. The squadron was decommissioned in 1933 but was recommissioned as "VF-8M" in 1935. On 1 July 1937, VF-8M was re-designated Marine Fighting Squadron 2 (VMF-2) and by the end of the year, had completely reequipped with Grumman F3F-2s which replaced their F3F-1s and a few even older F2F-1s. The squadron participated in annual Fleet Problems while at San Diego and even played a part in the making of the movie Dive Bomber. Several future Medal of Honor recipients served with the squadron during this period, including Henry Elrod, Robert Galer, and Gregory Boyington. In January 1941, the squadron moved to Marine Corps Air Station Ewa, Hawaii and was re-designated VMF-211 on July 1, 1941."

 

[tenntex32]

Here’s a well known Marine visiting the Air Force.
He just survived a fireball crash landing.

I wonder just how good a shot he was with that Victory. I've got a U.S. Navy Victory shoulder holster with added bullet loops around here somewhere.........maybe it was his?

 

[rogerwnuss]

Total mystery......I need to go look it over again, check under the grips, etc.......
Lots of neat info tho, thanks all.
I will continue searching info on this....ahem .....38 M&P............
I'm gonna get it in any case, I like old Smiths