jaestridge
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Saw this smith revolver on an auction site recent. Looks pretty sharp. Any “pre” model enthusiasts on here? What determines it to be a “pre” model, era of manufacturing?
Pre-27 thoughts?
- Thread starter jaestridge
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“Pre” models are models made before they started giving them numbers in the late 50s. That one would actually just be known as the .357 Magnum.
If the rest of the gun looks like that you should get it. I can’t quite tell if it’s an 4” or 5” and it looks like it’s wearing “Coke” style grips. More knowledgeable people than me will be along shortly but you may also be bidding against them.
If the rest of the gun looks like that you should get it. I can’t quite tell if it’s an 4” or 5” and it looks like it’s wearing “Coke” style grips. More knowledgeable people than me will be along shortly but you may also be bidding against them.
If there are a lot of pictures, there should be a serial number on the inside of the ejector rod shroud and on the back face of the cylinder that match the serial number on the bottom of the grip frame.
It’s definitely a longer than 3.5” barrel and shorter than 6”. As I understand it, 5” was somewhat standard but if it’s a 4” that would probably be custom ordered, no? In that case might the cokes be as well? Either way, if you don’t have the original grips, you pretty much can’t get any better than that for desirable non-originals.
It’s definitely a longer than 3.5” barrel and shorter than 6”. As I understand it, 5” was somewhat standard but if it’s a 4” that would probably be custom ordered, no? In that case might the cokes be as well? Either way, if you don’t have the original grips, you pretty much can’t get any better than that for desirable non-originals.
That’s a 4 incher. Since production 27s at that
time,and until the late 70s were 3.5 and 5 inch, that would be a custom order piece and worth a premium. Somewhere around 1978, they dumped the 3.5 and 5 inch barrels and went with just 4 inch, which, oddly, were mostly nickel.
time,and until the late 70s were 3.5 and 5 inch, that would be a custom order piece and worth a premium. Somewhere around 1978, they dumped the 3.5 and 5 inch barrels and went with just 4 inch, which, oddly, were mostly nickel.
I love the pre-27s! Looks like that one has been modified some. The Coke grips (as noted above are probably not original to the gun) and they have been modified by rounding the rear butt of the grip. It looks like the barrel has been cut and the sight reattached to the rib, without the checkering on the rib being smoothed out (look closely at this photo blow up) - also note the in-the-white barrel crown.
The trigger is wearing a trigger shoe, which often leaves screw tip marks on the color case when it is removed.
Still a fun gun, but I would not pay a premium for it (I'd expect a discount for the mods...).
As noted above, there were not many pre 27s in 4" as it was not a cataloged barrel length. Here is a thread where you can learn more about the 4" pre-27s:
https://smith-wessonforum.com/threads/four-inch-barreled-pre-27s-photo-and-info-thread.466938/
Note: You can still find pre-27s shipping in1959, as several in my collection shipped in 1959.
The trigger is wearing a trigger shoe, which often leaves screw tip marks on the color case when it is removed.
Still a fun gun, but I would not pay a premium for it (I'd expect a discount for the mods...).
As noted above, there were not many pre 27s in 4" as it was not a cataloged barrel length. Here is a thread where you can learn more about the 4" pre-27s:
https://smith-wessonforum.com/threads/four-inch-barreled-pre-27s-photo-and-info-thread.466938/
Note: You can still find pre-27s shipping in1959, as several in my collection shipped in 1959.
OP
jaestridge
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What would a premium be as mentioned by an earlier member? What would something like this realistically be worth?
I have seen very few Cokes on factory .357s but they were shorter than the ones on the .44s. Looked like the ones in the OP picture. Very rare.
Riposte
AudieMurphy
Member
shouldn"t the barre
should be a serial number on the inside of the crane facing the cylinder. alot of people forget about that one. and even the inside of the extractor star
quinn
Member
I would encourage re reading of Richard's (RKMesa) post above.
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stansdds
Member
Nice, but it is not original. The bottom edge of the stocks have been rounded and refinished and the front sight is not original, but the modifications would make it a better carry revolver. The finish looks really good, too good for a revolver that was carried and used and also looks very black, so I would suspect it was recently refinished.
The ones in the ops picture have been modified.
Cokes on 27's are not common from the factory.
However not sure where your getting that they were shorter ?
No premium. What it is worth and what someone will pay for it could be the same or could be vastly different. Modified guns are sometimes difficult to value. There are collectors who love and collect nicely modified guns. My experience is that those modified collectors also tend to be value-oriented and do not pay a premium for modified guns in their collection. A lot of serious collectors are not even interested in modified guns at any price. I think at auction that gun should sell somewhere in the $900 to $1,400 range depending on who is bidding, how experienced/knowledgeable the bidders are, and how much auction fever can be generated. Reasons someone may pay towards the top-end of that range:
- those are "coke" stocks and they look comfortable - even if they are modified
- the barrel is a handy 4" and appears to be nicely modified
- it is a 357 Magnum (pre-27) which is one of the finest guns to ever roll out of the factory
- looks like it would make a great "shooter"
- buyer does not have a safe full of 357 magnums
OP
jaestridge
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This forum is a good source of information and opinions from all spectrums and that’s why I posted and wanted to start the discussion. Everyone has an opinion and it’s valued! Lots of “Know it alls” on here and that’s a good thing..
I’ve seen a lot of pictures of the “pre” 27s and, in a thread I started on the topic of 27 serial number locations, 27s with serial numbers stamped inside the ejector rod shroud.
Either way, I bow out of dispensing any further of my opinions about that revolver from this thread as the real experts have shown up. (I don’t mean that sarcastically, I mean it genuinely).
Either way, I bow out of dispensing any further of my opinions about that revolver from this thread as the real experts have shown up. (I don’t mean that sarcastically, I mean it genuinely).
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Is that finish original ?Saw this smith revolver on an auction site recent. Looks pretty sharp. Any “pre” model enthusiasts on here? What determines it to be a “pre” model, era of manufacturing?
It is only an assuption, I've seen three now that were both shorter and rounder on the bottom. All were on 3.5" 27s or pre-27s - but I have no evidence they weren't all modified. They all were identical to that 4" in the OP (I agree BTW that that gun was cut back - perhaps by the factory). I have a 4" 25-2 that was done that way with the factory modification stamp.
It came (in 1974) with factory target stocks but they were standard.
They were at different gun shows but all in my state so they may have been done by the same guy - whoever it is, if it is an individual I'd sure like to find him.
Then again, I've got a similar set on my 624 that definitely aren't factory. For one thing they are Maple. I got them off an eBay auction.
Seems like a difty idea!
Riposte
Hair Trigger
US Veteran
Asking if there are "pre model enthusiasts on here" is like asking whether there will be ants at a picnic. I'm not up on the specifics as well as others here but if I were to see that beautiful 5-screw .357M in a display case, it would go home with me regardless of the modifications it might have.Saw this smith revolver on an auction site recent. Looks pretty sharp. Any “pre” model enthusiasts on here? What determines it to be a “pre” model, era of manufacturing?
I will not doubt your assessment, you know much more about them than I, but if the barrel has been shortened, it seems the barrel roll stamp is still centered properly between muzzle and frame. My 6-incher from 1978 has the roll stamp centered over the spot where the ejector shroud tapers back to the barrel; if it were to be cut back to 4", the roll stamp would be way off-center and end almost at the muzzle. Even a 5" barrel cut back to 4" would have an off-center roll stamp. Your thoughts?
Great observations and I agree with your points and that I could be wrong. We are working off only one photo. To further your point, the front sight pins are also in the right place in addition to the roll marks being centered on the 4" barrel. Interestingly enough, while you were posting your thread I was searching my photos of pre-27s. What I found is that roll marks were a little all over the place on the early post war Magnums.
Roll Mark on an 8 3/8" pre-27
another 8 3/8"
another 8 3/8"
... a 6"er
a 6.5"er
another 6"
another 6.5"er
I hope that it is a factory 4" pre-27 and that we have found one more to add to the database. To make a proper assessment I would love a few more photos (front of the barrel face, a close up of the rib where it mates with the front sight, a serial number and any other photos).
The gun in the OP is a great gun regardless.
I like it a lot and would love to have it in my collection as it would fit perfectly with my modified guns or factory original S&Ws. I would certainly keep it on my auction watchlist and agree that were it in a case in a gun store for sale, I would have a hard time leaving it there.Thanks for your astute observations.
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Hair Trigger
US Veteran
RK, those are some amazing engraved guns, I can't imagine the time it took for the engraver for each gun. Closest I have to anything you show is the 5-screw blued 6" with the smooth presentation stocks. I found an ANIB M27-2 in its case with all the goodies about 5 years ago. It Letters to Washington's Birthday, Feb 22 (but 1978 and not 1732 
). I never got lucky enough to find a '50s or '60s era M27.
). I never got lucky enough to find a '50s or '60s era M27.Mike LaNier
Member
Knowing date of production would be key.... Neal and Jinks noted that 'target' grips were not generally available on the .357 Magnum until 1954 or so...otherwise they had to be special ordered, or added after the sale. Neat gun, though, and I lust!
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jaestridge
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Well..
There’s been many comments on this thread but it’s been interesting. When I started this thread, I had already won the lottery on this piece and just wanted to see what y’all would say about it. I also had reached out to S&W Historical and tried to see if anything could be said about it. I did find out that it’s a 1952 product but that’s about all at this point. Things got better this afternoon when I put on hands on it from my local ffl transfer guy. And it’s an absolute gem. All 3 serial # locations match up. Pretty stoked about this kind of piece of S&W history. I’ll try to get some pics posted when I get time.
I always look forward to RKmesa posts because I know there will be photos of some BEAUTIFUL S&Ws! The man has an enviable collection of fine revolvers!!!
