Pre model 10 5 screw

[smithman65]

I have a couple questions about a pre model 10 5 screw in 38 special I ordered online the other night as a result of impulse buying..
After ordering I looked at the picture further and noticed the top screw looks to be stripped or missing the head. Is this a big deal in regards to safety? I know later on they did away with this screw.
Paid $215 total shipped to my FFL. They noted that the revolver was in good functional shape. Does this seem like a fair price? I don’t really care about aesthetics as I plan to use as a truck gun.
Thanks

 

[smithra_66]

I have a couple questions about a pre model 10 5 screw in 38 special I ordered online the other night as a result of impulse buying..
After ordering I looked at the picture further and noticed the top screw looks to be stripped or missing the head. Is this a big deal in regards to safety? I know later on they did away with this screw.
Paid $215 total shipped to my FFL. They noted that the revolver was in good functional shape. Does this seem like a fair price? I don’t really care about aesthetics as I plan to use as a truck gun.
Thanks

The picture isn't clear enough to tell what is going on there. Assuming you can get the old one out, you can replace it with a new or vintage screw.

It's not a safety issue to shoot it without that screw, but I would want to secure it properly.

They did later do away with that screw, but those new models introduced a lip on the sideplate that slid under a recess on the frame to secure that part of the sideplate, instead of the screw. An old 5 screw like you have isn't the same if you remove that screw.

 

[smithman65]

Thanks for the feedback. I couldn't tell for sure from that picture either. Still in the process of having it shipped to my FFL so I will look at the screw when it comes in. It looked to me that maybe the head was sheared off. I didn't know if it was a big enough deal to reach out to the seller before it is shipped.

 

[quinn]

Interesting M&P you acquired. The bobbed hammer could indicate that it was a cop gun at some point. Looks like the hammer was professionally done. I feel that at the price you paid you will get a lot of fun with it. You may have to remove the sideplate to really tell what best to do about the top screw. Get some instructions if you haven't removed a S&W sideplate. Not hard but there are some hacks on how to pop the sideplate off once the screws are out.

 

[Truckman]

I wonder if some previous owner had a WonderSight on that gun, and misplaced the original screw?......Ben

 

[Muley Gil]

Welcome to the Forum.

If you decide to remove the side plate, you will need some gunsmithing screwdrivers, which have parallel sides. Hardware store screwdrivers have wedge shaped heads that can twist out of the slot.

 

[Alk8944]

It actually looks like the screw was drilled out, not well either! Based on that I would have passed on the gun! So far as your original question is concerned, that screw being missing causes no safety concerns whatsoever.

 

[JP@AK]

It would be of interest to know the serial number from the butt. Based on what I see, it was probably produced between the middle of 1922 and about 1927. Hence, technically, it isn't a
pre-Model 10, but a .38 Military & Police revolver.

Others here have correctly replied to your questions.

 

[smithra_66]

It would be of interest to know the serial number from the butt. Based on what I see, it was probably produced between the middle of 1922 and about 1927. Hence, technically, it isn't a
pre-Model 10, but a .38 Military & Police revolver.

Others here have correctly replied to your questions.

Yep. At least pre ~1936 since the S&W logo isn't on the sideplate.

Definitely a long action M&P.

 

[JP@AK]

Yep. At least pre ~1936 since the S&W logo isn't on the sideplate.

The bracket I mentioned has to do with two factors:
1. Made in U.S.A. was added in about the spring of 1922.
2. The mushroom shaped extractor rod knob was phased out in about 1927. With the possible exception of some late shipping .32-20 units, no 1930s K frames had a knob shaped like that.

 

[Casual Smith Nut]

Whether or not you overpaid is up to you and how much you’ll enjoy that old gun. What’s for sure is that those old pre war guns have some of the smoothest double actions out there… and they’re not making them like that anymore. I’d say you’re gonna enjoy it plenty. Sights are probably regulated for 158gr standard pressure loads.

 

[smithra_66]

The bracket I mentioned has to do with two factors:
1. Made in U.S.A. was added in about the spring of 1922.
2. The mushroom shaped extractor rod knob was phased out in about 1927. With the possible exception of some late shipping .32-20 units, no 1930s K frames had a knob shaped like that.

Good point. The ejector knob puts it further into that timeframe.

 

[AC Man]

I am a novice when it comes to older guns. Guys on this site live and breath it. My humble opinion is that it is a mid 1920's model 1905 4th change M&P. I have a couple of them just like yours and in the 1920's they did not have the S&W medallions on the grips. My two date to 1926 and have the same ejector rod.

As a 68 year old mechanic I would not worry about the upper screw unless it is worse than it looks. A gunsmith/machinist could fix that.

My problem that would steer me clear is the shaved off hammer. That is a deal breaker for me unless that is something that you like and works for you. Price doesn't seem bad.

 

[.38SuperMan]

Really clean ones don’t come along often where I live but if you keep your eyes open you might get lucky.

I bought this 1920 M&P 38 special about 3 years ago and paid $350 at a local dealer. It was pretty dirty and the action was stiff from dirt and old oil. I thought it might clean up nicely and I was right. The nickel is excellent and the action very smooth. The pearls came on it and they’re in beautiful shape. I’d now like to find one in this shape in 38 S&W and one in 32 S&W Long. I just have to keep looking.

 

[DWalt]

To fill your intended use, I’d just forget about doing anything to it. It is correctly called a .38 M&P, ca. mid-1920s. Assuming that it is in fireable condition. A missing bug screw does not create a hazardous condition. Its serial number is likely in the 4xxxxx range.

 

[AC Man]

To fill your intended use, I’d just forget about doing anything to it. It is correctly called a .38 M&P, ca. mid-1920s. Assuming that it is in fireable condition. A missing bug screw does not create a hazardous condition. Its serial number is likely in the 4xxxxx range.

It is a given that it is a 38 M&P I was just narrowing it down to the model 1905 4th change per S&W catalog.

 

[rct269]

It would be of interest to know the serial number from the butt. Based on what I see, it was probably produced between the middle of 1922 and about 1927. Hence, technically, it isn't a
pre-Model 10, but a .38 Military & Police revolver.

Others here have correctly replied to your questions.

Well that fellow up above there who's most certainly forgotten more than I'll ever know about these things has already made the point---or at least A point---it ain't a "pre model 10"!

What I was wondering was if it'd be proper to call it a pre-pre-pre Model 10---unless I got either not enough pre's, or too many of 'em?

Ralph Tremaine

 

[DWalt]

It is a given that it is a 38 M&P I was just narrowing it down to the model 1905 4th change per S&W catalog.

Narrowing it down, the correct name under which your revolver was cataloged by S&W is the ".38 M&P" (square or round butt) model at the time it was sold. "Model of 1905" was not used by S&W after 1914. Many collectors and references do continue to use the old pre-1915 nomenclature to describe M&Ps made until WWII, even though S&W itself did not. This is primarily because the revolver design changed little between 1914 and 1940. "4th Change" was never used by S&W, only by collectors. It is not incorrect to do so, but it is good to understand the nomenclature differences used by S&W and collectors. Additionally, "pre-Model 10" is a term never used by S&W, only by collectors. Collectors use it in reference to M&P revolvers made between roughly 1947 and 1957 when model numbering started.

 

[smithman65]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. Were M&Ps from this era safe to carry with 6 rounds?

 

[Retired W4]

Your M&P was made before the late/post WW II sliding hammer block but I would not hesitate to load all six chambers. Just don't drop it from one deck to another on a US Navy vessel.